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i don't want an echo chamber of friends that think exactly the same things i do. there's nothing i can learn from a situation like that. but are there limits to this?
i thought i would be okay with having my two christian friends. i thought it would be a great opportunity to see things from a different perspective. but whenever i want to talk about our differing opinions, they think i'm arguing and "trying to be right all the time". they say "if politics can get in the way of our friendship, we shouldn't be friends."
i try to explain that politics plays a huge role in every person's lives, whether the person wants to acknowledge it or not. but they cannot seem to get rid of the thought that i am "letting politics ruin everything".
in the beginning, i wanted to know what they believed and why they believe it. i wanted to learn about my friends. this is still what i want.
but now that i know what they believe, my motives are admittedly a bit different. now i want to understand why they think it is okay for them to put their religion into laws that force me to live by their religion, and i do want to explain to them that doing this infringes on my freedom from religion. i want to *convince* them.
but they do not seem to understand the difference between believing something *to live by for their life* and making *everyone live by it*. they confuse the ideas and think that i want them to agree with me on the base problem when, *no*, as i'd said countless times before, i *know* that we disagree and my intention is *not* to make us to agree on the base problem.
i said "convince" before. i don't want to convince them to agree with me on the base problem. THIS is my intention: i want to convince them that it is wrong to *want* every person, christian or not, to *be forced by laws* to live by their religion/belief/opinion.
here is another place where we get stuck. "some people voted that way and *they're* not christian." "there's exceptions. or you can move." "my vote alone doesn't decide yes or no." this is brought up SO many times, EVEN AFTER i say, "i don't care about other people right now, i care about my friend," or, "if you had it your way there would be no exceptions or a place to move to," or, "i know, i don't care about the other votes right now, i care about *you*".
what i want them to hear is that their religious opinions have nothing to do with my life and what i think is right.
but all they hear me say is "your religion/book is not factual and you should believe me instead".
i really don't know how else i can get them to understand. i tried texting but i come across as condescending for some reason that i genuinely can't wrap my head around. i tried talking and i constantly lose my train of thought, say the wrong thing, and somehow sound like i'm "arguing". i really don't hear it when people bring it up! i was just having a conversation and occasionally interrupting *only* to correct what they said *about something i said*!
maybe the limit to having friends that think differently is... i hate to say it... intelligence? i don't know what other factor would lead them to think i want to change their base opinions when i repeatedly told them that's not the case.
no, maybe it's closed-mindedness. the unwillingness to give new ideas any real kind of thought. but when i think about that, i lead myself to the conclusion that they must not care about me or love me, because they are unwilling to try to understand. then i think, "this can't be true, maybe they're just stupid."
but calling someone "stupid" is so shallow. i feel like i'm disregarding their complex thought processes and beliefs and life experiences that every human has.
but then i feel like they do the same to me. then i think, "i can't just assume theyre doing that, i should talk to them about it."
and the whole problem starts over again. i'm making it a big deal, i care too much, i'm condescending, i'm trying to be right all the time.
Comments
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ryan
aghhh this is so frustrating
i'd say these are not the kind of people u want to talk to if u want to distance urself from any echo chambers
many (WAY TOO MANY) people simply do not care to give so much thought into others perspective and dig their heels in when conflicted with another perspective that doesnt align with their own
i say if u still wanna hang w these people avoid topics such as religions and politics because i dont think they have what youre looking for D: but youre really awesome for wanting to understand others and bridge a gap between you and others who think differently (i think thats whats happening in this story, im tired LOL)
BROOOO I JUST REALIZED HOW OLD THIS BLOG IS WHOOPS I HOPE THINGS ARE GOING WELL W THIS SITUATION
by ryan; ; Report
LOL ITS OKAYY ty for your reply anyway <3
ya i tried to hang out w them more but i could not get over the facts that 1. they didnt take my (+anyone else that thinks differently from them) perspective seriously 2. they wouldnt want me to get married if i fell in love w someone of the "wrong" gender? 3. they wouldnt respect me if for whatever reason i felt more comfortable using different pronouns 4. they dont care that women (me btw) r dying as a direct result of their anti choice ideas 5. scientific facts aren't important to them yet they love to say "facts don't care about your feelings" 6. so much more.
looking back, i'm glad i gave up on trying to get through to them bc it probably wouldve hurt more to learn more of the beliefs theyd been hiding from me. theyre just very immature, brainwashed people aaannndd i hope they get better?
by holly; ; Report
yikes dude glad u got away because clearly they didnt respect you or your opinions at all???? wow??? never give these people the light of day w their opinions cus theyre just gonna think theyre right no matter what, and somehow its like their ego gets fed every time they deny the truth. no hate like christian love at its finest :/
by ryan; ; Report
fr i tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but i learned my lesson i guess :[ it sucks trying to find new friends bc im in a red state and soooo many of the ppl i start convos w irl are secretly conservative like why can i not meet normal ppl wtf
by holly; ; Report
ughhh nooo :((( i fear thatll be me if i go to college too far from my city because its also really red in my state, but my city is like a blue oasis in a sea of red. but yea i'm sure its crushing having to deal w weird trumpies when u wanna make friends nd stuff, but yea idk man its probably best to just run at even the slightest detection of trumpieness
by ryan; ; Report
u right but sometimes theyre the opposite of what i think?!?! like some ppl have microbangs and i think theyre cool but terf bangs r a thing??? and sometimes i see girls dressed in like poofy pastel dress/hairbows/etc and its a tradwife thing???? HELP
by holly; ; Report
BRO NO WAY
i heard about this its like conservatives dressing as liberals cus no one fucking likes conservatives LMFAOOO
by ryan; ; Report
LMAOO FR i allllmoost feel bad for them
by holly; ; Report
no dont theyre stealing our shit LMAO
by ryan; ; Report
dwdw i said aalllmmmooosst
by holly; ; Report
AnxiousAnarchist
i just wanted to say that i relate to the "but whenever i want to talk about our differing opinions, they think i'm arguing" SO MUCH, just because i ask for a reason why they think a certain way they always say "why cant you accept that i think diffrently" WHICH IS NEVER WHAT I ACTUALLY MEAN, i just want to know why you think like that im not saying its bad or wrong but you cant just have an opinion without beeing able to explain why you think so! but then im the bad guy cause apparently trying to understand other peoples opinion is a bad thing and im trying to "ruin our friendship" >:[
LITERALLY THIS. why dont they understand the difference between trying to understand and trying to "disprove"? maybe they know deep down they dont have a good reason and they are wrong? :|
but if we're "best friends" shouldn't we be able to have deep conversations about anything? and recognize when we're wrong / hurting each other?
it bothers me so much that some ppl would rather not use simple logic than put effort into understanding their FRIEND.. but what can i do.
by holly; ; Report
so true
by AnxiousAnarchist; ; Report
Iris
There's so much I'd like to share, but I will withhold and just say some key points that have helped me grow throughout my life.1. We're all souls on this road of life traveling at different paces. Some will exit off and go in a different direction. We're all here to grow and expand our consciousness. 2 People come into our lives for a reason,a season or a lifetime. When we share space with them they may mirror back to us similar things that give us the illusion we're connected and yet we're together to experience and learn from one another. When that time is up either we move on or they do. 3. A mentor once said do you want to be right or justified. That always makes me pause and recognize for me it's about giving space to see the other person's POV and acknowledge it may differ than mine and I choose what I'm going to do. 4 Their way may not be your way of believing and that's ok just choose differently for you. I have many relatives and friends that don't share my beliefs. I choose to surround myself with people that do and I limit the amount of time I spend with those that think different than me. I still love and care about them but let them be who they are.
thank you for your comment <3 this is definitely a lot to think about.
1/2. maybe we were bound to clash at some point and it was always going to end. but our time together was fun and a good learning experience.
3. i do want to be right. i don't want to hold incorrect beliefs, i want to learn from my mistakes. i guess other people aren't like that and i shouldn't put effort into trying to change them because all i can control is what *i* am going to do moving forward. but there is something to learn from everyone, so their POV is still valuable.
4. i will surround myself with more open minded people from now on. i won't waste my time on ones that don't care to learn or have difficult conversations or challenge their beliefs.
by holly; ; Report
NataliisBatzii
Hii! don't be too hard on yourself here, recently last year I lost my best friend of 3 years because I was "hurting her relationship with god" personally I do not believe in God and me and her have had long long talks about her religion and I agree a lot with what she said but not with some of it. And unfortunately it does get to a point with politics where their beliefs are hurtful, an example is that someone close to my family had died and she said "It was apart of gods plan" and that... wasn't comforting to me, it made me angry in truth because this family friend had new babies. Who now had to grow up without a mother. And that enraged me to think some higher being would do that to his supposed children, along with her believing abortions shouldn't be legal when me personally am at risk of death during pregnancy for health reasons. And no matter what when I would tell her I respect her but not her beliefs she would say "well that's just not true because the bible is right about everything" even so in science class she wouldn't participate in some lessons about our solar systems creation because "The big bang didn't happen! god made it all!" and when I refused to help her with work because she wouldn't stop saying it was wrong she got offended when I left that day. There were also a whole bunch of personal reasons but my main goal here was just to tell you hey.. maybe don't be friends with them.
I've found a large portion of religious people support negative ideas that bring down other people, either of ethnicity or gender and its just straight hateful, and its difficult to be friends with someone whos "lifestyle" is just straight being shitty to others. I hope this finds you well and your able to figure it out. If you wanna talk more about this feel free to dm me privately <33
tysm for ur comment <3 i hate that this kind of thing happens but im glad that im not alone at least.
i feel bad thinking that i might be outgrowing them. and i wonder if maybe i'm missing something and that *i'm* actually being the bad person..
but at the end of the day, they assume their worldview is *the* correct one and that everyone else is wrong, theyre extremely closed minded, and they dont care to actually put in real effort when we talk about it.
i guess they aren't the type of people i want to call my best friends or surround myself with
by holly; ; Report
exactly, and it does suck it really does and your of course allowed to feel sad for loosing them over something like this, don't bring yourself down thinking "well they're in the right because they said so" sorta thing, going through something similar rn and it is sucky but it'll get better <33
by NataliisBatzii; ; Report