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Blogs on Spacehey are an absolute clusterfuck of opinions at times, especially when they keep looping back to the whole xenogender/neopronouns being stupid argument. It's the same thing, and being someone who uses neopronouns, I just find it stupid, personally.
So, I'm gonna go into why I think it's a bit dumb.
It can come off as transphobic and/or ableist.
Not to necessarily say that it is that case, because sometimes when people speak negatively about xenogenders and neopronouns, it's not always out of malice. Sometimes it's simply out of not understanding it, and that's where I see people just not get the point of it.
Xenogenders, at least in what I've experienced, (I don't go by any xenogender) is just a way to describe how something is connected to their identity and how inherent it is to that gender experience. It's basically them describing how their gender feels, not that they are that thing. It's like saying "My gender is an arcade carpet floor"; it's pretty androgynous on its own and it can be a lot of patterns, but it's also really colourful and it stands out easily when you look at it. You're also not actually a carpet floor, you're just saying how you feel your gender.
So why am I saying it comes off as transphobic?
Putting it simply: xenogenders are a way to describe how a gender feels to the person who is experiencing their gender. Gender is not experienced in the same way to anyone. Whether you're gender non-conforming, transgender, cisgender, a xenogender, you have your own definition of femineity, androgyny and masculinity.ย
It's not going to be the same thing, and the definition of gender may also become loose depending on who you talk to. By talking down about xenogenders and invalidating the person on that basis, you're also invalidating the experience of how someone experiences their own gender and identity, which, if you said this to a transgender woman that her experience with femininity was invalid because it's not how you see it, would be transphobic.
Which also brings me to the next thing you're probably going to ask.
How does it come off as ableist?
Nearly all of the people I have known who use xenogenders or neopronouns as a way to express their gender are neurodivergent/autistic, systems, or a combination of both. That's not to say I haven't met people who are neurotypical and a singlet and they use a xenogender and neopronouns to describe their gender, but I see it a lot more in people who are neurodivergent/autistic and/or systems.
My definition of gender is fucking wack because I'm autistic.
I couldn't tell you for the life of me what gender is supposed to be because I don't understand it.
Gender is a lot more complicated than 'I am trans' or 'I am cisgender' or 'I do not conform to the rigid gender rules of society'.
It's a lot more complicated than that and I can't even begin to go into detail about how stupid the concept of gender itself is as an autistic guy because why do people want to fit themselves into a neat little box with expectations and limits?
Why do men have to be expected to be unmoving, unemotional and unconcerned with other people's issues and why are they seen as fruity for liking performing arts? Why do women have to be expected to be incubators and to be emotional and fragile and get talked down to if they dare touch a video game? They're simpler questions, but I still ask them to this day because... why?
Gender is just something I don't understand and never will, and that's the same case for a lot of autistic people as well. Doesn't apply to all, by the way, but this sort of thing is why things like Rabies Pride exists (by the way, it's not being proud of having rabies, it's connected to how many autistic transgender individuals get treated as if they were rabid animals on the basis of being autistic and transgender).
Don't even get me started on gender in a OSDD/DID system, but you can expect it to be a mess given how alters can present very differently in the system's inner world if a system has one, and therefore, can be a variety of genders using different pronouns, ETC, but you can also expect there to be struggles with gender if you're a system, especially given how often times people will already know you as one set person and gender identity.
But my god gender is a BITCH if you have it for so many reasons. I could actually go on more about autism, DID and gender in a different blog. But I'll make a quick run down here anyway:
In DID, an alter may hold onto an idea or concept and, if they're a fictive, who they were in their source material and what they did may be an inherent part of their identity, and for any alter, their hobbies could be part of how they experience it, and perhaps how it influenced their feelings on gender. An alters being non human internally may also influence how gender is felt because the idea of gender may be more loose anyway.
All in all, if you find someone mocking someone with xenogender, there is a really good chance that they're probably neurodivergent (mostly autistic), part of a OSDD/DID system, or they are a combination of both.
If you don't like xenogenders? Okay, cool, I'll personally be in support of my xenogendered friends, they're not really hurting anyone and most of the time we don't even express our neopronouns or xenogenders offline because we know that as of currently, there's not much open or public advocacy or support for xenogenders or neopronouns it is currently. And if it is, there's probably high amounts of backlash for it anyway.
If you don't like the people using xenogenders and neopronouns? Go somewhere else. Block them. Ever heard the term 'Don't like, don't read'? Just do that. Like... nobody's hurting you because a trans guy like me uses voice/voices pronouns while on an online space.ย
It's like when binary trans people were dogpiling on non binary identities only to have laws put in place against them. Point is here, you don't like us? Move on, you can spend it with people against it, don't make yourself mad for no damned reason. There's literally transgender genocides happening right now. Someone describing something as complicated as gender through neopronouns or xenogenders aren't going to eat you alive because you simply exist.
Edit - 03.09.23
So I am seeing some very insightful comments on both ends (either both agreeing and/or disagreeing). Thanks for being civil about all this, on both ends. I'm pleasantly surprised given the sheer amount of discourse and argumentation this site has and how willing people are to jump at people's throats
Hope you guys have a good day :)
Comments
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ray
i strongly believe anyone thats cares wayyy too much about saying this kinda stuff is an โembarrassmentโ to the community has never faced any real discrimination
transphobic/homophobic people dont NOT care what you identify as!! they just dont like that ur different :p plus there is literally bigger issues in the community than this such as people literally being murdered for their gender identityโฆ i feel like people have too much time on their hands to complain about this shit and maybe start caring about the actual dangers within our community rather than attacking other parts that cause no harm at all
Yeah, I did want to mention it, like, yeah, people do need to leave other alone, but like... people do not care and people can't win either way
by ๐๐ด; ; Report
Also gonna pin your comment because it's important that is said; there's literally transgender genocides happening right now in the world and people are really complaining about how someone experiences their gender
by ๐๐ด; ; Report
Literally!!! Also w pfp Marina supremacy
by Zombie_boy; ; Report
this is exactly how i feel
by allison; ; Report
MetalHeart
Nah
If it's abilest to hate xenogenders then I guess I am
by MetalHeart; ; Report
alex !! ๐ซ๐ฆ
yappatron 3000
head.blown๐
Hello, I agree on some parts and disagree on others. I believe that xenogenders are useless out of the circle of neurodivergent people. Since I am NOT autistic or have DID or anything like that I can't understand how people with those certain conditions see gender and I can't judge about how they decide to express It. On the other hand, I feel like non neurodivergent people just do It for fun. I know that if One says they're catgender It doesn't mean they identify as a cat but at the same time you have absolutely NO NEED of calling yourself catgender. In the real world gender Is based on how you present yourself: androgynus, masculine or feminine. Since ,already, for example, feminine Boys are not seen as boys and made fun of if they Say they are there Is no place for you to identify as catgender. Neurotypicals just do It for fun, and gender isn't supposed to be funny. Gender Is something for wich people get killed everyday and you can't reduce It to having fun, that Is Just disrispectful for the trans community (I'm genderfluid so don't come at me).
R0xXy!
With all due respect I will leave my comment with my opinion. It is clear that it is not right for them to attack people and kill them. But there is one thing that is very easy to understand. There are only two sexes which are male and female (Man and Woman) A woman is the human female and a man is the human male. Non-binary gender as such does not exist and is an invention made by progressivism and people with left-wing ideology. Either you are born a man or a woman since if you are born a woman biologically you have chromosomes and a series of things in your body that differentiate and honestly there are things that not even different hormones can remove. It is NOT a transphobic comment. Trans people in themselves are people who have something mental, it makes them think that they are not well and because of problems they may have (The majority of trans people and people who use neo/xenopronouns usually have anxiety, depression, etc. seen in a statistic) And it makes them think that they themselves are bad, even their body, and they cling to something that can make them feel good or take it with their own bodies. Xeno/neopronouns are stupid since you can't explain with an object etc how your gender is interpreted. You can't interpret how you feel or what you are through a vocaloid character, for example. As you have said, almost all the people who use this type of things are usually people who have autism, which I want to emphasize that just because you are autistic does not represent you as a person and you do not need to repeat it all the time. It is just a mental medical characteristic that you have and it affects some social behaviors that you may have but you are not special or strange. YOU JUST HAVE IT, do you understand? It's not good to obsess over the issue of being autistic, seriously. And as such, ''They don't hurt anyone'' In a way, yes, in terms of people who ''inform'' if you can call people who show these things on tik tok or something like that (neo themes /xenopronouns or trans issues) often make children confused and they end up doing things or saying things that they later regret (There have been cases of people who have regretted the surgeries they have had or things they have done for these issues) People who, no matter how much they do, always feel bad about themselves and that is because it is a problem of managing emotions, problems and lack of self-esteem. Also many people do it for fashion. It's not bad that people are against xeno/neopronouns or so, but obviously it's not good to attack or kill, it's just not to agree because in my opinion it's a lot of meaningless nonsense and it shows great disrespect to the basic biology of the human being and human principles in general. Real trans people make these changes because they need it mentally, but don't expect them to treat you like 'Him and your neopronoun is a unicorn because first to be called a man you have to look like at least one and the neopronoun thing is already nonsense because You don't really feel like a unicorn nor can you explain it how you feel about him as a unicorn because it doesn't make sense. Honestly, how do you feel about someone with the pronoun "Elle"? Honestly, no one can explain for sure how and interprets feeling comfortable with a pronoun ''her''. How honestly do you feel โnon-binaryโ? How can you not feel like a woman or a man like that out of nowhere? There is something there that has made you doubt, and people on the Internet have made you doubt that by putting up meaningless things that confuse children and people in their teens. Now you will call me transphobic and all the words with ''phobic''. Also to highlight the piece of nonsense you said about men having to be strong because that's what society orders them to do and that women can't even touch video games... Excuse me? Today, both a man and a woman can do and work at whatever they want to be. It is clear that there are jobs that are more required by men and others more required by women, but today no one is prohibited from doing anything. And if you say yes, it is because you are still linked to the old excuses and arguments that you always say to be protected in your "oppressed" bubble. If this type of oppressed person continued, no voice would be given to this type of speeches like those given by thousands of people without two neurons in their heads.
v0m1tr0n
people have too much time on their hands and need to do something productive. the whole thing is extremely toxic and also creates massive division between people
็ชๅใ
Pls let all of these internet arguments DIE!!! Praying to the lord for it to DIE! ;)
Vriemich
nuhuh
xX_Berrie_Black_Xx
I Do Not Identify With A Xenogender (I Kind Of Just Identify With Two Labels [Three If You Count Nonbinary As Separate From Genderfluid]), But I Do Not Really See How It Harms People. Also, As Far As The "It Makes Us ReAl LGBT People Look Bad" Arguments, Transphobes And Homophobes Are Most Likely Never Going To Take Us Seriously Anyways. Just Coexist And Do Not Act Like A Jerk. To Those That Care So Much And Act Like Xenogenders Are The End Of The World: It Is Not A Big Deal, You Are Just Being A Baby About It, And You Need To Fudging Get Over It.
โก
II feel that they should be called xenocards instead xenogenders,due to the fact that they're mainly used to express yourself,
YYES
by โก; ; Report
Zeta Luke
i read this as "people need to stop complaining about xenogears" and i thought this was a xenogears hate thread
KASPER
I dont really like xenogenders myself, but as long as someone is happy with how they represent themselves, and as long as it doesnt hurt others, that's all that matters!
๐๐ฆ๐~Graceโ~๐๐ฆ๐
REAL!!!!! how hard is it for ppl to just respect others-
Apparently people find it really difficult, which is disappointing
by ๐๐ด; ; Report
FR T-T
by ๐๐ฆ๐~Graceโ~๐๐ฆ๐; ; Report
KlohyaBoots
you really wanna be a minority being oppressed dont you
I'm diagnosed with autism-
by ๐๐ด; ; Report
I already deal with shit tons of ableism and infantilasation from my own family members
I'm also a trans dude so it's shit tons worse in that regard
by ๐๐ด; ; Report
ok and? sorry you are going through that but no need to project onto others
by ๐๐ฆ๐~Graceโ~๐๐ฆ๐; ; Report
Theyโre just kids, big whatever
by ็ชๅใ; ; Report
Pops
I use to care about xenogenders and stuff until I was like why do I care so much? Honestly the whole thing is just confusing and i would rather spend my time doing something else than worry about it.
โณ†โ โฒโ ∀โต๊โซ
totally agreed also id like 2 mention how people will say we "make the lgbtq look bad" like.. you are not "1 of the gud 1z". tranz/homophobic people do not care what ur identity iz they juzt hate that it involvez the lgbtq as a whole. were1 community, if anything U are making uz "look bad" by hating on ur own people when we should be more accepting 4 obvious reasunz
noelle โฎ
still kinda confused (or im just dumb as shit
), but i guess this kinda helped?? i just donโt understand why so many people are concerned about another personโs life. as long as itโs not affecting your life or causing harm to them, you or another person then people really shouldnโt care. i personally donโt use xenogenders or neopronouns but iโm not gonna make fun of someone for using such things. life is too damn short to worry about stuff like this. yโknow?
R0RY ๐ฐ >w<
This is the best way to put what Iโve been trying to say for YEARZ
Nazzz
Although I personally don't care I say the reason is the fact that they grammatically are not pronouns, (In English and other languages like Arabic), Pronouns are supposed to be professional and proper not just any noun that can be a nickname (or name) you use pronouns for the other participant, you don't call your co-worker a chair because it's not actually talking to them as one person professionally but rather as a *class* of people, thing and objects so your either talking about the person with a group of people or you call them a thing and object and that's what pisses people off, I again personally don't care do whatever you want if its not harming anyone (including yourself)
lumine โฉ
*real