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This discussion isn't that deep and personal to me but its been on my mind a lot recently. My best friend is doing some of their own exploration in their gender, and its made me continue my own.
A few years ago (2018 I believe) I came out to my close friend group as nonbinary shortly after I discovered it as a "third option." (I'm a white American raised in the south, so my exposure to other cultures/religions/etc without the help of the internet was slim to none.) I really closely related to this analogy someone else had made about it:
Back to how I was raised in the south, my mother was (still is) very religious and quite conservative in her ways of thinking. Oddly enough, she worked a lot and made quite a bit more than my dad, so I wasn't raised with the mentality of letting the man in my life be the breadwinner and for me to be the one to stay at home and raise the kids. It was actually the opposite. To this day she tells me I should never let that happen to myself. I still wonder if this is why I used to claim that I could just "never relate" with the typical expectations for women in society, even though I knew other women had those ideologies forced onto them. I feel lucky to be so disconnected from that. But now I'm in my 20's, I know a lot more now than I did in 2018.
Most importantly, I'm pretty much over it all. All of the gender criticals, trans discourse, transmed/truscum bullshit I've seen posted in the past couple of years. As of where I stand now, my only belief is the core/basic understanding of gender as we know it: a social construct. Nothing but that. Not necessarily "everyone is nonbinary" but I see where those guys are coming from. The male/female experience only exists because society has reinforced that for centuries going on, and probably for centuries to come.
And even though I still use she/her pronouns, I fully welcome they/them pronouns. Because I believe at my core, I'm just a human and decorate myself "feminine" by choice. Not because I have a vagina and that choice was made for me pre birth. Woman may describe my experiences through life, but not who I am or what I was born as.
***Don't take this post seriously!!! It's 2:15 am and I'm just talking out of my ass. This doesn't take into account any other cultures or beliefs from around the world. I don't believe it to be true for everyone. Just myself. If anyone wants to share their experiences as being nonbinary or trans or neither, even, go ahead.
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LadySarita
I know that this is probably the tip of the iceburg when it comes to this topic and your thoughts on it. It was honestly so refreshing to see someone express an opinion similar to mine. I know that now more than ever, it has become important to start the journey of self-identification and being proud of the outcomes from it, but I feel that it only keeps the idea that we HAVE to identify as one/ the other/ or neither. As humans, it is natural for us to crave knowledge and a lot of time we crave the knowledge of getting to know ourselves more. I think that choosing one part of who you are as a person and making it your whole identity holds you back from growing as a person. I am a woman and maybe it is a choice that I made because of my anatomy or the way that I have percieved other women in my life, but I would not want to be seen as only a woman because I am so much more than that. I support my friends and family in their journey of finding who they are and will always do so. But i encourage every one of them to not focus on one part of themselves because we are complex creatures.
Ciar
gender is so dumb. all identities are equally valid and invalid all at once. i wish gender just didnt exist at all LMAO
Oenis
I didn't read the whole thing but honestly, it's so hard like I started going by he him and came out as trans but seriously no matter how much I try I literally never looked like a guy and if I ever dressed in a dress, it was in a more feminine way and not a masculine way. so, I honestly have just given up and I dress how I dress and whatever people call me is whatever.
whisperz03
I don't really understand. Your biological sex is either female or male. Why do you even need terms to express your social gender? Isn't that obsolete? I am male, I was born as a male and so I assume, I "am" male. And if I suddenly was female from now on, that wouldn't be a problem too. Because I don't need a social gender to identify myself.
Well, I would say it's far from obsolete. It's how you're perceived, therefore interfering with how you're treated by society, by law, etc on a day to day basis. Going off that hypothetical, if you identified as a trans woman starting tomorrow you would be viewed through an entirely different lens by everyone who surrounds you. But yeah, in a utopia, it wouldn't matter and nothing would change. Saying it's "either male or female" isn't taking account for people who are intersex, either. And of course, being born with a penis ≠ male and vice versa. You're just given a body with some organs. But you didn't choose to be labeled a male and then be raised to the male standard that we have in place. If you don't personally feel the need to identify as such that's totally cool.
by hannah; ; Report
Transgender is another topic, as I see it. Yes I didn't take care of that when I wrote my comment
by whisperz03; ; Report
I initially meant the fine details. Yes, there are two extreme points of social gender (male and female, you can't be more (fe)male than you are at some point). And there is a whole lot of stuff inbetween. That's totally normal. But does every fine difference has to be labeled? For me, this just sounds like you want to be as individual as possible. People really brag with their genders with obscure names and give themselves pronouns that are random words (I've seen a "moon" today! If that's a pronoun, so what's the difference between that and a name? "Moon did this and that..."
And sometimes they even mix their social genders (how you identify as) with aspects of sexualities (who you are attracted to) and romance (how you are attracted to someone, eg. demiromantic). Do they even know, that these are three different things?
Then there's another question I ask myself. How do sexuality and gender interact? If a heterosexual man is attracted to a woman that identifies as male or non-binary or gendervoid for example, is the man still heterosexual?
I always think, there's something that doesn't work in this perception with social genders. That's why I think it should be better to give up all that categorising in little groups. Everyone should be able to love anyone and everyone should act like he wants to, in terms of stereotypes. Then we wouldn't need those ultra complex categories and names...
by whisperz03; ; Report
I guess I know where you're coming from now. It's not where I was going in my original post but yeah the neo pronouns and xenogenders are hard to keep up with if that's something you spend a lot of time on. Personally I don't identify with it nor does anyone I know, so I don't talk on it. I agree a lot of the newer terms aren't necessary, more so because they become erasure to existing sexualities that that person probably already falls under. (But there's no such thing as "a woman that identifies as male" that's just being blatantly transphobic, why not just say male?) If a straight guy finds himself having a crush on a non-binary person I'd say it's safe to assume he's still straight. No need to go changing your entire label unless he felt really compelled to do so, but it's not my prerogative as a bystander to do it for him. Also, kinda sounds like virtue signaling to change your entire label to seem more inclusive towards non-binary folk.
Anyways, again my original post wasn't really about anything other than specifically the non-binary label. Because yeah, I don't think you need a label much beyond a certain point either. IMO A lot of that stuff is derived from young people being mislead by uneducated adults on the internet on how to navigate their gender and sexuality. I don't see people above the age of like, 25 use those labels, especially not in real life.
by hannah; ; Report
That wasn't meant to be transphobic. If I say, a woman that identifies as male, I mean that this person is seen as a woman because the person basically looks like one. The person identifies as man, but do I know this just by looking at the person? I can only know when I talked to the person. If I only said "male" then the context isn't given because you would imagine a man that has a male body. I could have said "a trans male" though.
by whisperz03; ; Report
I don't really have a groundbreaking approach to that specific scenario then. That's how they feel comfortable dressing and identifying by, even though to a societal standard it makes no sense. If you actually find yourself in that scenario then hopefully they don't get angry for being misgendered, considering they literally meet the standard as it is currently for how a woman looks/dresses *in the eyes of our current society.* Can't stress that part enough. That's all I would say.
If someone were to argue that they NEEDED to make an effort to appear closer to how they identified, that's a whole other conversation. Nobody should be subjected to have to pay for new wardrobes and gender reassignment surgeries just to be perceived as how they identify. No matter how much that person changes their body and outward appearance to be perceived as a man, there's still gonna be people that don't respect any of that the second they find out that they weren't born with a penis. You might as well dress however you want at the end of the day.
It kind of sounds like I'm contradicting myself, but it's hard to articulate.
by hannah; ; Report
I understand what you mean :) And I'm not in this situation that was just an example. It is just so much to learn about this topic. I mean, these things have almost no relevance in my daily life and now I'm on SpaceHey and every second user has neopronouns and stuff, this is a big jump. I do not want to hurt people when I complain about all this, I have to get used to it and respect them anyways or I will run against a wall very soon xD
by whisperz03; ; Report
I know what you mean. Even I feel out of place lol
Have a good day xx
by hannah; ; Report
You too :)
by whisperz03; ; Report