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when the time comes and i have to close my eyes for the last time i don't think i'd want to go to heaven, like Freddie mercury said" no, i don't want to go to heaven, hell is much better. think of all the interesting people you're going to meet down there" and its true, according to basically every religion none of the people i admire will be in heaven, like kurt cobain, layne staley, john lenon and freddie mercury himself, if in heaven kurt cobain isn't allowed in then its not a heaven i want to be in. but i guess it doesn't matter if i want to go to hell or heaven, because there no such thing as heaven or hell, to me these "places" are just made up concepts humans made up to fool themself and so is religion, humans need a way to cope with the fact that they don't know what happens after we die so thats where religion come into play, we as humans always try to figure out stuff but when its literally impossible to know something we freak out. now religion is nothing more then a way for people above the common men to make a buck and gain power over idiots who will give their lives if they think thats what god wants. "god"... theres nothing more i hate than the idea of god, a over powered, egotistical disgusting soul sucking ghoul, since i was a small child the idea of god made me sick to the stomach, a all loving god who also lets the worst shit happen to nice people. i love whenever i tell people i hate god because how he can let small children get r@ped and not even care they tell me "well, without evil there be no good", without evil there be no good??? i think that without evil we'd still know whats good and whats not. i know that killing someone isn't good and not because of religion, but because im a human being with feelings, guess thats something a weirdly large amount of religious people lack or down right don't have. i hope someday people will realize that the god they follow was just someone's way to get rich or get a vote, but people need a way to think that everything they do matters in someway and that there is a meaning to all this.
heaven, hell and god
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s0nd3r
I am catholic but i do understand where you're coming from
The concept of Heaven may seem boring to some so I can see why you may think that
heaven isn't just boring, it's borderline hell tbh, why would anyone choose to live forever. at one point you're gonna get tired of having to even think, i honestly can't imagine having to live and think forever even if i was in heaven, everything and everyone should have a end specially the human mind/conscious.
by IHateAndre; ; Report
i guess i'd choose it over being eternally tortured in hell
by s0nd3r; ; Report
chuddie
Hell is a place that is separate from God's gifts, friendship and love are gifts of God and so they are not present, so you won't be partying with kurt cobain or whatever.
How can you be so sure that heaven and hell don't exist, assuming there's no proof of heaven and hell, there's no proof against it, so the most you can be is agnostic.
And even if I assume your point that heaven and hell are man made, there's nothing wrong with that. If the universe is just a pure accident, then religion is a way of coping with this meaninglessness. It's sort of a pascalian wager. If atheists are right, and everything is meaningless, they suffer on earth based off of their nihilism while religious people are are much happier, and if religion is true then atheists suffer in hell, and are unhappy on earth, while religious people are happy in heaven and on earth.
Most human beings already delude themselves by giving value to meaningless things like material wealth, and so what's so wrong with deluding yourself with something that actually satisfies you, this is assuming religion is false in the first place, which you didn't give any reason as to why its false, so I won't talk about that topic.
Your reason for hating God was the problem of evil, why does God let bad things happen, if he's good and loves us.
Well firstly when people tell you without evil there would be no good they're right, we can not know what something is without knowing its opposite, you cannot understand why a good thing is good without having seen a bad thing.
God let's bad things happen based on free will. God wants people to do good and follow him out of their own choice. If God forced people to worship him then their love for him would be worthless, and so when bad things happen, it is out fault for doing it, we can't blame God. And don't think that these people go unpunished, even if an evil person repents, they will still suffer in purgatory for the impurity in their lives. All the suffering in the world is completely insignificant when compared to the goodness of the afterlife and the goodness that will come after Jesus' second coming.
And how can you know killing is wrong without God? There is no reason for it to be wrong if we are all just chemicals and matter. The reason you think murder is wrong is because we all have a moral code written into us from birth. This is why all people think murder is wrong, it's because even if we're atheists, will still have deep feelings about morality that we can't explain. These feelings have to come from somewhere.
People are never going to realise that people used God to get richer, because that's not true. If you look at the early Christians they were willing to be tortured, skinned, beheaded, all because of their religion. This is how Christianity spread, throught people willing to be martyrd for God, not riches or votes. It doesn't sound like they benefited.
i can be sure heaven and hell dont exist by reading the very book which claims heaven and hell exist, the amount of contradictions in the bible are insane if it's suppose to be "the word of god" either a really stupid god or idk?...mistakes made by the people who wrote it.
also "atheist suffer based off their nihilism" um...no? actual the opposite, we are free, free from a god that would punish us for simply not believing, i dont have to worry about some cry baby in the sky sending bad luck my way for being mean to him. im free here and in the afterlife, the way i see it no matter what i do in life i can rest easy at night knowing at the end theres nothing to worry about. for me true peace means not existing, if you can't touch, smell, think, or even feel the passing of time then its true peace. its the same ending even if i was bad or good, in the other hand religious people aren't free, or at least they rather not be free. they have to follow rules, what they wear, how they act, how they speak, and if they step out of line, say something bad about their fragile ego god, it's the lake of fire for them. i can't deny a lot of them are people happy with their life because of religion, still if you saw a man digging a hole that you know there's nothing buried there, but they thought that at the bottom they'll find gold wouldn't you tell them "your doing all this for nothing" even if that hole was something they lived for.
"without evil there's no good" at best without evil there would be neutral, a state neither good or bad. but why would it all be neutral? the all powerful all mighty god such surely be able to make good without the need of giving my grandpa brain cancer, or making people kill each other over petty things. unless he either does't exist or enjoys watching people die in earthquakes. "God let's bad things happen based on free will" what a fcking joke, he's all knowing, do religious people know what "ALL" means? with god there's no free will. lets say god exist, why would he make me? he knows im going to call him out for being a egotistical soul sucking ghoul which will land me a one way trip to heck. what was the need to make me, i have no free will i mean everything i do he's known since the beginning. it's like if i made a sims character and made him be super evil just to punish it for being evil.
"god gives you free will to follow him" like i said there is no free will, our fates were sealed the second god opened his eyes, but apart from that, free will to follow him should mean that if i dont wna, i should be able to just walk away, but no, if i walk away and dont wna follow his orders he'll just grab me and place me in a jail where i will burn forever (god kinda sounds like hitl3r if you ask me...) don't think god isnt forcing people to worship him, he is but with extra steps "believe in me or burn"
"The reason you think murder is wrong is because we all have a moral code written into us from birth" or because humans are social creatures who depend on each other to survive, and killing each other is killing one's self. the feelings we have although all can't be explained come from a need to survive and a need for companionship. without god we'd know killing each other would be a bad idea, because we would be killing people who could be useful to us, or people we'd take a liking to. you dont need a magical wizard in the sky to know taking out one of your own is wrong, not just because you might need them, but because they are like you, and you dont wanna be killed.
"People are never going to realize that people used God to get richer, because that's not true" one word...megachurches.
by IHateAndre; ; Report
"Contradictions" in the bible either arise from people nitpicking two verses that have different descriptions of the same situation, but don't contradict each other. Or from laws in the old testament that were fulfilled and made no longer necessary by Jesus' incarnation, death and resurrection.
And I'm not protestant, so I'm not going to speak for all Christians, but most Christians don't believe the bible is the direct word of God, but a historical recounting of what God did on earth.
Atheists do suffer because of their nihilism. Suicide and depression rates are higher for atheists than religious people. Maybe you're free in the sense that you can do whatever you want, but we have the freedom with a God as well. It's just that when we turn to sin, we become a slave to our desires, like lust and gluttony, and so we lose our freedom. We have no more in atheism than in religion. Most atheists reject religion merely because they want to be exempt from moral duties.
If God had such a fragile ego he would of brought himself down to our level to die on the cross for us. That doesn't seem like a very egotistical thing to do.
You're blaming God for things we do. God doesn't make us sin, we sin ourselves for betraying God in the garden of eden. God does have the power to stop it but he doesn't because it would be a violation of out free will to follow him. God doesn't want to make us follow him, and if he did you'd probably hate him for that as well. God does know that you will commit evil, but that doesn't mean he created you with the intent of you going to hell, God created everyone with the intention of them going to heaven, if he didnt he wouldn't of descended into hell to save the souls there. It's your fault if you betray him, and God isn't going to make you follow him. God gives people a choice, love him in this life, be with him in the next, or hate him in this life and be separate from him in the next. That doesn't sound very soul suckingly evil, it's just common sense.
Hell isn't a place with demons torturing people and fire and that, that is all metaphorical. All hell is is a place separate from God's gifts. And so if you reject those gifts, God won't give them to you.
We would know that killing each over is a bad idea withour God, but we wouldn't know that it's immoral. There are other things we know are wrong but don't affect our survival, like paedophilia and incest.
Saying megachurches doesn't dispute the point I made. The prosperity gospel is a complete contradiction to the actual gosepel, and isn't a valid reason to hate Jesus himself.
Matthew 19:24
by chuddie; ; Report
What is your interpretation of the eden story? Humanity seems to have an inherently sinful nature that we cant help (without Christ) so our sin cant just be attributed to free will. Additionally maybe you could say whenever people choose to reject or accept Christ they are making a descision comparable to Adam and Eve’s in the garden of eden , but doesn’t the Bible say people only choose to accept Christ with God’s help? Why doesn’t he choose to give evetone the help to accept Christ? I am a Christian but this is a bit confusing to me and I am interested in others answers. It is very possible I am just being stupid >•<
by dectroia; ; Report
Humans are born with original sin, which is removed through baptism, but other sins are done through our free will.
God does help our conversion, he does with everyone, this is called grace. We can choose to accept or reject it. God is constantly offering us grace, and a lack of belief is a rejection of God's grace.
(I'm not a theologian BTW, this is just my interpretation)
by chuddie; ; Report