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Intro
I'm a person who hates the Tiktok goth community, for their lack of information about what goth is and completely going against why goth was created.
You might think that this whole blog seems rather silly but I really want to spread information about what goth was and is and this topic is way more than "silly", it has harmful effects to it. As you would know what Tiktok trad goth looks like is just extreme hair, extreme makeup and only featuring the colours black or white, and you see it everywhere on almost everyone which comes to the point people view goth as a "uniform".
Ever since the peak of goth people thought in order to be goth, you must wear this uniform, which came to the 1st goth club, The Batcave. As a self-certified Batcave and Specimen expert, the Specimen hated these types of people and hated the fact that there had to be a "uniform" to fit in even though this was a space for people expressing their creativity. They'd also take the piss on you if you were a little copy of Siouxsie Sioux (as a wonderful video bought up, I will link them down )
I do want to say the issue isn't liking a certain style, it's the misinformation you're making of it which then relates to capitalizing off of it.
Misinformation about what Trad Goth was
As I mentioned in the intro, Tiktoks of trad goth are very extreme and limited when going into colours. "So what was trad goth" you may ask, at the peak of goth which was the opening of the Batcave many people weren't at that level extreme. Well, some people were, but that was only a few people and you can't generalize how everyone looked at the time off of a few pictures.
Instead, people would do things like put on some eyeliner, slabber some eyeshadow (usually colourful but they'd also went into dark, neutral shades as well), put on some colourful or black cheek contour, and then put on some lipstick. For their clothes, it was really whatever they got out of their wardrobe, or made. There wasn't a specific style to it, just whatever they liked but what they all had in common was that it wasn't from capitalism it was all DIY.
So, why is this harmful?
The reason why this is harmful is because it capitalises off of goth, as one of my good friends said "What also drives this point home is that nowadays, people seem to look for every piece in their wardrobe to be "goth".", which then results to people thinking certain brands like Killstar is goth because it simply says it is. Which completely disregards the whole political sense of goth, why goth is goth.
As I mentioned earlier, people think that goth is supposed to have some sort of "uniform" making a whole non-conforming subculture, conforming.
Conclusion
The point of the blog is to simply tell what the actual traditional goth is. Not to attack you if you like the Tiktok version of "trad goth". There's nothing wrong with liking a certain style but I think it is also important to recognise that it isn't historically accurate in any way, hence it should go by a different name. Though I think it is important to remember that goth is political, without being political goth simply wouldn't exist therefore we need to follow these ideologies.
Goth has always been and always will be political.
If you want me to cover more topics of goth please do tell me. I might cover more about the harm of the TikTok goth community and the misinformation it shares. If I've missed something or got anything wrong don't be afraid to tell me I'd fix that error up.
Credits
Link to the video: https://youtu.be/_W7y3enZih0?si=yyR1nxIFfdWbfMG6
Link to the person of the quote: https://spacehey.com/kadavera (if you want to read more blogs, check out their page)
and a special thanks to my brain, for not having a life and for being a nerd.
Add on quote
Olli Wisdom "It wasn't the creative crew of individuals coming, but more of the clone Goths, if you like - where people had heard of the Batcave and dressed up to what they thought was the dress code, rather than a bunch of individuals with a unique dress sense thrown together.
It wasn't a Goth look at the beginning (People couldn't buy off-the-peg Goth around this time). As something gets bigger, it can only become more diluted"
I say Olli said this perfectly
What should tiktoks "trad goth" be called now?
Simply, nu goth. It isnt traditional, its new.
Comments
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kadavera (under construction)
wholeheartedly support this. goth is and always will be music, fashion is subjective. people in the 80s used whatever clothes they had and some imagination to pair clothing creatively in a way that expressed themselves. I guess the black and white photographs really led people to believe that it was truly black and white... you shouldn't throw away your clothes in order to replace it with poor-quality "goth" shirts, "goth" pants, "goth" socks, and "goth" undies made by terrible companies. people just wanna chase an image and embody it as soon as they can, rather than take time to discover and properly do research on the subculture. social media has made this an even bigger problem due to its image-based nature.
P.S. thank you so much for featuring my profile and what I said!!!
very well said! I can see how people could confuse the photographs to be actually black and white though I think some pieces genuinely don't seem to be a shade (like you can sense the colour out of it... in a way). the whole trying to conform into this image seems as the person isn't really into it, maybe they are and I'm just assuming things but I think a lot of people are doing it to fit in rather than express themselves and their ideas.
social media is an annoyance when it comes to subcultures, it finds a new way to just completely suppress the culture of it all.
no worries, a big piece of the blog would be missing if it wasn't for your point!
by Jo ☥; ; Report
exactly, it's so ironic because the whole point of goth is to not conform. and colors aside, even if it was black and white, you can still see that they use everyday clothing, and incorporate their personal touches like polkadots. and thanks once again by the way!
by kadavera (under construction); ; Report
yess!! thank you for mentioning that. i find the people who say "goth isn't fashion" are quick to say "you're not goth you don't look like this: ____", it's so hypocritical to the point of nausea.
also want to mention i love a good polka-dot.
by Jo ☥; ; Report
I also wanted to mention that maybe those who add their own touch get backlash. and yes i love polka dots too!
by kadavera (under construction); ; Report
oh my ghoul i hate when they say that, personal touches is more goth than being a copy-paste conformist (well which isnt goth at all)
by Jo ☥; ; Report
oh my ghoul i hate when they say that, personal touches is more goth than being a copy-paste conformist (well which isnt goth at all)
by Jo ☥; ; Report
exactly!
by kadavera (under construction); ; Report
bernardo's wake
Dayyyuuuuum and I thought I was the only one who thought this. Glad to know I'm not alone. The situation is worse here in Brazil (my country), the misinformation is way more amplified because alternative subcultures got their meanings distorted as hell here. It's not just issues with goth clothing, the recent tiktok goth revival did let people know about Siouxsie n all that but there's still a TON of people buying from mainstream brands and calling themselves goth because they listen to Deftones, Linkin Park and Evanescence. I got stared at by that type of people when I went out dressed as a trad goth once.
This made me think I may be more goth than I thought, I thought I couldn't be considered gothic nowadays because I don't listen to the famous goth bands like Sisters and Bauhaus as much anymore (I like goth bands with a very specific sound like the Bolshoi) and I don't really feel like dressing like a "Siouxsie clone". Thank you for this post. Very necessary.
Yeah, it’s odd how a subculture against conformity and instead about expressing yourself… turned into conformity. What’s the fun in dressing up like everyone else? Whether it’s jeans or something quite tacky.
I feel the same way about the music (Bolshoi is a great band), there’s so many great goth musicians but everyone goes for the popular ones. When it comes to that, I can’t help thinking they’re in it for the fad.
Back when goth wasn’t actually a thing, it was so much funner since it was people who truly wanted to be themselves not to be a label or something “different”
by Jo ☥; ; Report
Exactly, it feels like a fad. A fad that acts like it's supposed to be revolutionary or something. And I thought people complaining about "mall goths" was something serious enough. The conformity ruined it. All the trad goths I've seen wear the same makeup. I think some goths don't even know Siouxsie wore colorful clothes in her gothic heyday.. and that's the thing, I thought I was gonna be an outcast because I wanna dress differently but I don't wanna use no label like punk anymore. The Batcave story left me surprised, I thought I had to look a specific way to look "alternative" enough.
Mark E Smith from the Fall once said that punks didn't like his band coz they didn't wear buttons or had crazy hair... and the normal people didn't like them because they didn't conform enough...
by bernardo's wake; ; Report
It’s better to be an outcast than have no stance. I don’t know how it doesn’t drive them crazy that they look head to toe like someone else- the hair, the makeup, the clothes? Nor the colours, how doesn’t it depress them? I have to say I love colours. I agree with the labels, it’s a bit revolting to use it. I rather my homemade titles, there’s a little bit of meaning. Batcave was such a perfect place, and I wish for it not to get tainted (again) by the public eye. It’s ironic that the downfall of the Batcave started when “goth” became a thing
by Jo ☥; ; Report
LiarOfHeaven
Everyone I meet irl who is alternative or looks goth, never actually is, their all super nice don't get me wrong but no one (at least at my college/class) cares about politics, no one cares about the environment. The history of the sub culture. It's literally just about looks. Not about beliefs or music. And it's sad. No one cares anymore.
it’s quite a shame. without the history, politics, activism, and overall mindset, goth just wouldn’t exist. this nu era of goth seems to be disassociated both from the community and the past
by Jo ☥; ; Report
and hopefully over time people will learn the difference of subculture and their style of fashion
by Jo ☥; ; Report
Jo ☥
i want to mention this too, a little add on to Olli's quote...
'Batcave', this name was never supposed to be taken seriously. a lot of people hear "batcave" and think it's quite dark, so goth must be quite dark but in hindsight the name batcave was supposed to be super goofy, funny and ridiculous.
yea like when I first heard of the name I went "wait like the Batman Batcave" XD
by Kat!KatastropheXD; ; Report
Whirly
I'm not goth but i love learning about the culture. its very gorgina to me. :)
✧*̥˚ ryha11a *̥˚✧
very informative post. we really shouldn't put a restriction on what qualifies someone as "goth" nowadays because 1. we should know better and 2. goth is a mindset/community! like sure the black and white outfits of today look pretty sick but that isn't the only thing you need to do to appear or be goth. we should all embrace our differences even in the outfits we make, uniqueness and individuality is the spice of life fr!!!
exactly! goth is to be free, to express being non-conventional , and to be an individual.
the fact theres labels towards goth is an interesting thing for me as well.
more people need to realise that theres no dress code, no uniform when it comes to goth. if you require the politic sense and music taste, then youre a goth!
by Jo ☥; ; Report
facts! I wanna see more goth shit with color in it
by ✧*̥˚ ryha11a *̥˚✧; ; Report
1st Generation
Great blog, love seeing content like this on the site.
but yeah this is the way of the dodo. every niche culture movement will soon get appropriated, repackaged, and resold to the people who were never apart of the movement in the first place. I mean just look to your left and youll see how Hip-Hop has be killed, re-animated, and resold to suburbs. The screams of struggle is the inspiration of the wealthy.
you worded this so beautifully!
by Jo ☥; ; Report
Raven_Faith_777
I was just watching this channel on this topic TODAY! Amazing. Thank you for the info post. This must be flowing in the air.
a5triddd
i fully support the points, and ik that a lot of fake-trad-goths exist on tiktok, though my page has been pretty consistent with real goth content which is inherently anti-capitalistic and pro-diy
so to say, there are a lot of actual goth/punk people and content on the app!!! <3
sadly for me i dont get much videos from that side of goth-tok. whenever a video comes across about the subject of goth, its always about fighting eachother or even flexing about their killstar products
but when i do get videos of goths expressing political values im so happy
by Jo ☥; ; Report
WiNTERiZER
REALLY good blogpost! Thank you for making this. :]
awhh thank you too!!
by Jo ☥; ; Report
FRAN[KIE]
this was so interesting 2 read. if u made more blogs i would deff take a look at them :3
thank you so much, thats sweet of you to say!
by Jo ☥; ; Report
s1utshady
This is so true! Goth is about the music, and what you stand for! Goths come in all shapes sizes, and wardrobes. I like to refer to the tiktok goth style as modern goth, as that is a much more accurate term! I love modern goth style, but I agree that people need to learn that how you dress doesn't deem you as goth or not. Goth ≠ gothic.
amazing post!
exactly! its sad that so much people dont understand that your appearance doesnt define being goth
thank you as well!
by Jo ☥; ; Report
MetalHeart
Thanks for this
Sick Heart
The majority of people out there do not understand what goth is. It is not emo, it is not whatever the fuck tiktok says it is.
miles <3
Tik tok has completely watered down subcultures to just clothes and because of this,no one bothers to learn about the actual history behind the subculture and people whine about it saying that they can't be goth because they can't afford the clothes,for one goth is music based subculture,if you listen to the music, actually know the history and follow the political views,you are goth! Number 2, exactly what you said in this blog,you don't need to shop at killstar vampire freaks,hot topic or if you're truly insane,dolls kill to be goth(will admit I do have a few killstar stuff my cousin gave me,cut clothes I will admit but your entire wardrobe shouldn't come from there) and ppl getting all their stuff from shein,romwe and temu saying it's all they can afford cuz thrift store prices,loud incorrect buzzer!!!!! That's cuz u only shop at corporate thrift stores instead of locally owned ones!!!!! So yes you can afford it,also coming from an ex romwe shopper,shit is ugly af anyways.
Also tik tok goths screaming and crying when a goth dresses in any other gothic style or doesn't dress Gothic at all because as much as they will deny it,in their minds,modern goth is the only true Gothic style. And if you choose a different gothic style or aren't extreme with your makeup or outfit,then you're just an e-girl. And so many people get mad when you don't use white foundation with your makeup,go look at a bunch of photos from goths from the 80s and count how many have white foundation,it really wasn't that common to use,yes it's popular now but that doesn't mean it's a requirement and I'm tired of people treating it like it is
Oh and here's a colored version of that picture cuz I think I saw a comment on her Abt it
https://file.garden/Zd1Ng7wq23DtYCaV/32e4a442805d256d49e1e10b5f6f476f%20(1).jpg
by miles <3; ; Report
you wrote this very well!! and thank you so much for the photo!
i think its fine to own second hand killstar clothes, if you got it directly from them then that is another story. you're so right too, these companies products look terrible plus have terrible quality, why on earth does anyone buy them?
exactly with the thrift store part, locally owned thrift stores instead of the chained ones are so much better (plus it isnt a thrift store if it doesnt donate to charity as well). the ones that are chained are usually targeted by resellers.
people are turning a subculture that pushed being convient to being nothing but conforming. this is a personal opinion but a lot of things in nu goth is very tacky, theres some good pieces i like in nu goth but a lot of it is a pass for me (like that killstar ankh belt, which im pretty sure people dont know what the ankh resembles at this point, mainly because i seen people think of it as a religious cross)
the tiktok goth community really is nothing but harmful; in a way that they capitalise goth and continue to spread that misinformation, also harmful as blatantly irritating
by Jo ☥; ; Report
yayyyy<3
real goths dont gaf
💚VickyKittyAlienBoy🩷
I'm scene so I don't know to much about goth, but reading this now I defintely agree. My dad was/maybe still is?? goth and I feel like all of this Tiktok stuff would be nonsense to him lol
There's just so many new rules and stuff and it's just odd, I feel so bad for the younger generation as well since sometimes it can be really really confusing on what things are anymore. But Tiktok shouldn't be used as a source for anything honestly.
Expressing yourself is what makes you, you in whatever you call yourself!!
yeah i think goths who are outside social media or are older wouldnt make much sense of whats going around and certain misinformation thats lingering around tiktok
agreed as well! tiktok isnt a good resource when getting information howevverr it is a good resource for finding awareness on certain problems going around the world, especially since the world today is very focused online
by Jo ☥; ; Report
Spreading awareness is so important!! You are right!! :)
by 💚VickyKittyAlienBoy🩷; ; Report
BATHORy
totally agree with all of this. something i'd like to add, as me and my boyfriend were discussing this at some point, is that the people within the goth communities on tik tok tend to treat all the aspects of goth subculture as something that requires some validation in order to be considered "goth," a lot of people seem to be seeking out approval and listing off all these things that make them "goth" or showing how they dress in the approved goth fashions... when most of the time, you don't require any real sort of approval to be goth, or just be yourself? the "trad goth" movement these people are attempting to emulate literally cannot be emulated, at least not in the way they're doing it, because it's impossible to emulate a freedom of expression without allowing people to truly express themselves.
yeah i do find that odd. since goth has involved from punk, sharing same political values it does have anti-authorisation ideologies.
i also do say if you're trying to seek out validation for something, it doesn't seem like you're actually in it, or maybe they're just a baby bat. which I do feel bad for those who genuinely want to be in goth but are trying to get into it on tiktok as its a terrible place to get information on (there's only like 0-2 posts about what goth actually is I come across to on a day)
by Jo ☥; ; Report
Rain
I think it's great to see someone point out the differences of TikTok's version of different styles, because as some styles regain popularity or end up in the spotlight in one way or another it always feels like TikTok has a different definition than everyone else, at least of what that style is.
Sorry if my comment doesn't make sense, I have troubles putting my thoughts into words.
exactly, with any style or subculture its a completely different thing, sometimes in fact the very opposite thing
you wrote it all well, dont worry!
by Jo ☥; ; Report
gangrenelotus
tiktok ruined a whole generation tbh