silver!! 🌈🚢's profile picture

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Category: SpaceHey

in defense of proship

im honestly so tired of seeing this stuff lol so im going to refute a few common anti arguments

also, "proship" refers to being anti-harassment for enjoying fiction, while "comship" refers to actually indulging in dark or "problematic" fiction. the pro in proship does not mean problematic, its pro as in for. you can be proship and not be comship. i might use them interchangeably on accident in this blog tho, sorry!

"loli/shotacon is illegal!" firstly, no its not. secondly, not all comships enjoy or even interact with that kind of content. 

"It's only considered child p***ography if the person in the images or videos is indistinguishable from an actual child. This means that an ordinary person who is viewing the depiction would reasonably conclude the depiction is of an actual minor who is engaged in s**ually explicit conduct (18 U.S.C. § 2256). However, it does not include visual depictions that are drawings, cartoons, paintings, sculptures, or computer-generated images. Under 18 U.S.C. 2252, depiction must actually be child p*** with real minors." Source : https://www.egattorneys.com/federal-crimes/federal-child-pornography

"you cant use it for coping because itll only reopen wounds!" the following quote is about kink specifically, but it can easily be applied to non-sexual comshipping as well. 

"Many of those who reported trauma and hardship talked about kink as a way to relive that hardship with a sense of healing and mastery over it. For example, a sexual assault survivor might initially feel afraid, weak, and powerless during their actual sexual assault. However, simulating that assault via consensual roleplaying with a trusted partner can help them feel powerful (because they consensually negotiated and agreed to it, and can use a safeword to stop the scene), strong (because they feel they can get through whatever physical pain or intensity comes their way), and brave, for facing what can often be dark times in their past head-on." Source : https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/standard-deviations/201805/growing-up-kinky-research-shows-how-kink-identity-is-formed

"proshipping will turn you into a pedo/only pedos proship." again, not all proshippers interact with loli/shotacon or ship adultxminor. comshipping does not make you a pedo, because anyone in a relatively stable state of mind can differentiate fiction from reality starting at the age of, like, 5. anyone who is not a pedo is not going to turn into a pedo because of comshipping. 

"Do fetishes and proclivities engaged virtually—these so-called "mere tendencies"—bleed into our IRL sexual experiences? The answer, according to Dr. Seto, is that they only do if the risk factors and inclinations to commit those acts already existed: No amount of digital media is going to force someone's hand if their hand was not already moving in that direction." Source : https://www.vice.com/en/article/d7am4w/can-virtual-sex-prevent-pedophiles-from-harming-children-in-real-life

pedophilia is bad obviously, but comshipping isnt going to turn someone a pedo. The notion that all dark fiction shouldnt exist because it *might* encourage someone who was already having deranged fantasies about real people is ridiculous, because there are plenty of people who do not have these fantasies about real people (i am emphasizing real because fictional people are not real) and just enjoy dark fiction for reasons completely separated from reality, or for the reasons of coping. 

its a lot like horror movies in my opinion. people that enjoy horror movies are not murderers, and they will not become murderers for enjoying horror movies. a horror movie might encourage someone who was already had murderous tendencies, but its ridiculous to ban all horror movies because of this possibility.

overall, harass the actual pedophiles and groomers, not innocents who just enjoy *fiction*.

"that content is triggering to me and other survivors." dont interact with it then. spacehey doesn't have an algorithm, so the only way youre finding this kind of stuff is if you actively look for it, which is your fault at that point. as for other sites, most sites have an ability to block certain words/tags, and even if they dont, if you dont interact with that content then the algorithm wont push it towards you. if you comment hate on comship posts/accounts, the algorithm will assume you like it and give you more of that content, which is, again, on you.

comshippers that harass antis and send them comship content maliciously are an entirely different story. fuck you if you do that, but also that isnt the case for every single comshipper in existence. that specific group of people is a very loud minority, majority of us are very nice and civil!! :) (and also typically afraid of antis for how often we get harassed, actually.)

"its gross and wrong (aka, "*I* think its gross and wrong")." see point made above

"what if children see it and think its ok irl?" firstly, why is a literal child on websites 13+? that sounds like their parents problem. secondly, if a child has it drilled into their head that pedophilia/rape is, infact, BAD, from a very young age (as they should have), i promise they are not suddenly going to think its ok because they saw one twitter post. like i said earlier, children above 5 can differenciate fiction from reality (doesnt mean they should be interacting with that content, but if they stumble across it somehow it will not ruin their worldview). either way, if they are affected THAT heavily by comship content, that is entirely on their parents, not comshippers.

TLDR ; comshipping is legal and can be a healthy coping mechanism. please do not harass people for what fiction they consume. no matter what you believe, harassment of innocents is BAD, period. if you want to have a discussion with me about this my dms and comments are open, but please do not harass me or anyone else who supports what i said. thanks!! :))


*edit : removed the twitter thread because people kept thinking i was citing it, i was not lol. i was just saying it was a good starting point to find resources from, none of my information came from that thread and all of it came from actual sources.*


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gaycomputerdog

gaycomputerdog's profile picture

thanku for being smarter than the kids on twitter. 100k kudos


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ANDREW☆

ANDREW☆'s profile picture

BASED.


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bunnybunny

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also a lot of people don't actually understand why csem is wrong. they only see it as something gross and this is probably why i've seen people share art that they think is illegal in callout posts.


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Wolfie Is Dead :3

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spacehey should have a "30 kudos" option


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visterewashere

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personally i dont agree at all, but you do have some points

people shouldnt be attacking others just for their shipping tendencies because they don't like it, and yes, algorithm will assume they like it when they interact and show them more

but, still, fictional or not, shipping com/proships are rather problematic and im sure many people will agree

but no one should go out of their way to harrass ones who do do that ^_^

not everyone will turn into a pedo for shipping childxadult (still problematic however)

just as not everyone will turn into a zoophile for shipping furry ocs!! if that connection makes sense

you do you man, i see why people are upset, but they dont gotta blatantly go after you or anyone else

even if someones an online problem, just interacting with them will give them spotlight and more recognition aka clout ^_^


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xSigil666xx

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I think people should obviously do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, but if someone actively puts that on their bio like it's a flex I'm going to avoid them like the plague. Mature people should be able to use critical thinking skills to know that the opinions of kids on something that is entirely nsfw should be ignored, but also be smart enough to not publicly state that they're "proship" or whatever stupid ass term they're making for themselves. If they outright boast about it then they're a complete degenerate, plain and simple. I don't even know why you felt the need to defend it on this website in the first place.


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Axl !

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The fact that a good majority of the comment section is just insults and threats as compared to people trying to be reasonable towards you really says a lot, and I don't even like the concept of proship.


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god is good

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W


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Ina

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This is an interesting take. Thank you. Structure wise, very logical.
I've read somewhere that people don't turn into pedos, they already have tendencies to have that kind of behaviour. The psychiatric field is still studying that, but they already found some solid evidence to explain deviant behaviours.

Wasn't it the same with violent games in the past? News claimed that they turned you violent. Yet, we see people still playing FPS and action games but don't engage in any shooting or other criminal behaviour. I don't think most people will go on a killing spree because they played Doom or join the yakuza because they played Like a Dragon.

I know some people are more easily impressed than others, but we have to be reasonable when it comes to certain things. I don't interact with many things because I don't like them, for example, ASRM because it's fucking annoying and my sensitive ears cannot hold it. It's auditory torture for me. :P

But yeah... I guess. I'll just end here.


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PUPPET_MASTER

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personally i do not condone harassment either so i will get my point accross as nicely as i can:

- Using fiction to cope like that should only be okay in PRIVATE. The second you get it out and get it romanticized then it isn't coping anymore. It's like shtwt or edtwt. There CAN be actual help groups for all of these struggles, but those groups are mostly encouraging and anti recovery in their views.

- On a similar note, horror movie enjoyers (who are sane in their minds) do not romanticize the killers. They don't go "Wow I need him to gut me sooo bad". There's also no link to trauma with horror movie enjoyers.

- I think that using internet point of views to defend something regarding real life problems isn't the best way to go?

- and Also. Because something is legal doesn't mean its RIGHT. I have this ex friend (16) dating a 14 year old. It's Technically legal, but it's still weird. But if we're gonna speak of legal; an adult— even accidentally— exposing a minor to that kind of content IS corruption of minors. Which is illegal.

- I'm also wondering what goes through the minds of people enjoying lolicon or shotacon content? Most of the time when they inagine it don't they imagine real life kids or?? Either way, I still believe It's weird to fantasize about children, fictional or not.

- And fiction Can affect reality, in more subtle ways? People can pick up ideals, behaviors, and such from fiction. Especially people with an unstable sense of self or reality. And also it can just totally disconnect you from real problems if you indulge in fiction too much.

- Lastly. As much as most dark/comshippers wont turn out pedophiles you are still in an EXTREMELY dangerous position. That community is really predatory so like in that case we need to consider the safety of minors who are com/darkshipping. Especially that like, a lot of pedos (or anyone in general) could be getting off on your coping mechanism which is, in my opinion, a really gross thing to think about??
again on a same note presenting your trauma as "hot" or whatever can Not be helpful for you. To some extent it can even be self sexualization which isn't healthy.

Tl;dr A lot of people have have unhealthy coping mechanisms but they typically need to be kept private. Doing it in private is okay (you still need to get help) however the second you share it online or etc.. (in the cases of shtwt and edtwt as an example) it becomes romanticization and encouragement to pursue X unhealthy coping mechanism. Legal ≠ not weird.


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Adding on: some trauma survivors WILL trigger themselves as a way of self punishment. So like given that this stuff shouldn't be public in the first place?? People Will look it up as a form of self harm.

I also forgot to add that I feel like a Lot of those arent even portraying the trauma correctly. If a child accidentally stumbles on any of those (the Internet's a fucked up place) theyll think its sooo cute and that will mess them up for a big part of their life. That has happened to me so i Can speak about that without diving into hypotheticals or whatever.

Sure, youre not responsible for children on the internet. But you can't blame neglectful parents who dont give a fuck in the first place for the content You have created and You uploaded for ANYONE to see. There's still some accountability to take, no matter how much you'd like to think there isn't. People who upload gore and sh are responsible for their actions, why shouldn't it be the same for badly portrayed darkships?

I think some of your logic may very well have some holes in it. You can't condemn X but not condemn Y when they're similar in the way they affect people.

by PUPPET_MASTER; ; Report

completely agree

by cleo !!; ; Report

AmariHBNK

AmariHBNK's profile picture

i mean I do get some of your points like downplaying actual CP and abuse while focusing on a completely fictional and subjective opinion (the artist's choice to publicly post that art (you don't have to see it or talk about it)) I still think it's not a good thing to defend and I don't condone it.
please do not hurt me I just try to see things in a more realistic way and see both sides do not hurt me.
With that being said I've seen many MINOR pro-shippers getting bullied and doxxed by adults just because they didn't like it, so even if I don't condone pro-shipping, I also don't condone this behavior over young people who usually don't know any better (one example was only about 13-15).
do not hurt me I am scared to share my opinion


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And also on the debate of loli/shoutacon there's even more yaoi/yuri taking place in high school with the characters being only about 15-18. Are people saying that older minors are okay to sexualize? Or is it only the ones who appear as children? I know the more childish route is worse, but teenagers are still minors so if you're going to stop people from doing it to children, then you should stop doing it to teenagers since they're also essentially children.
(STATEMENT IS NOT TAKING SIDES ITS A NEUTRAL DEBATE QUESTION DO NOT HURT ME)

by AmariHBNK; ; Report

im sorry youre so scared to express your opinion dude this is such a touchy subject for some people. antis will literally harass people who are just neutral on the situation and its insane, but tbf ive never seen a proship do the same thing (considering proship literally means anti-harassment, yeah that makes sense). your opinion is completely normal and respectable

by silver!! 🌈🚢; ; Report

REALLY I WAS SO NERVOUS I SAID SOMETHING WRONG
I try to keep a neutral opinion and understand both sides, because for things like this it's not only in the US (ie in Japan it's common especially in Yaoi/Yuri communities). I'm not trying to normalize it but we have to take into account these factors along with others. I think I kind of understand a bit better since I do research and my mom works for the police (so I've heard many stories), so people really need to understand more and just be more civil and logical in regards to real life vs. fiction.
I actually told this a little ways below but they literally called me a whiteknight over it ;;

by AmariHBNK; ; Report

MockeryLloyd

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You’re a savior for posting this.


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It honestly would be really nice if these so-called “puritans” would just go after actual predators and groomers instead of innocent artists who draw and post stuff in adult spaces to cope with their own traumas.

by MockeryLloyd; ; Report

micahverse

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AMEN. I wish i could add more kudos


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by opheliac; ; Report