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simple question, really. why are you, the individual currently reading this, not vegan yet? hit me up with the greatest, most thought out argument you can think of. i'll read through them in a few hours. i'm curious.
EDIT: i just logged back on after ~10 days offline and there are too many comments for me to respond to. thank you for taking the time anyways but i will not be replying to you unless you took the time to write a large bit of text out.
EDIT 2: before you comment, read through the replies i have already made. i do not want to keep repeating myself. [1] - [2] - [3] - [4] - [5] - [6] - [7] - [8] - [9] - [10] - [11] - [12] - [13]
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rodri
McChickens are just so damn good bbg
im ngl chicken was the hardest thing for me to give up but mock chicken is actually pretty good, costs a bit but worth looking into
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
≋k≋e≋y≋
i have anna i would actually die if i went vegan
no hate to the vegans tho
jeez man sounds rough. i honestly consider eating disorders to be the scariest mental illnesses there could be. no pressure but do consider other things you can do/ avoid that aren't food related (clothes/ toiletries/ entertainment)
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
Shadane
Truthfully, I did try to be vegan. My body didn't handle it well.
well, at least you tried. would you consider avoiding wool/fur/leather and other non-dietary products made with animals?
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
wool? wool, dude? the stuff that literally needs to be sheared off of most breeds of sheep or else it will get overgrown, matted, covered in dirt and shit, infested with flies and maggots, and eventually kill the sheep? wool? please dont tell me youre actually one of those braindead vegans that think shearing means killing
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
my dude is there a particular reason you keep coming back to my blog
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
because it's a public blog and i want to keep up on whats going on <3 hope this helps
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
but like... why though? what makes you care this much?
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
seriously though. wool. what's your reasoning for that one, other than Animals Shouldnt Be Used As Commodities :(
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
thats my reason. animals should not be used as commodities. buddy i am vegan that is the whole point of the philosophy.
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
so you suggest that... what, sheep shouldnt be sheared, the wool should just be allowed to overgrow and mat and kill the sheep? thats not very vegan of you
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
yes we should actually let all sheep die under the weight of their own wool that we selectively bred them for that sounds AMAZING!!! ethical meat ftw!!!
shear the wool off and use it for the sheep. make bedding with it. same thing done with backyard chickens: just feed their eggs back to them. simple.
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
lol no. grow up and get a grip. try living in the real world. "worlds most paranoid" and no wonder, youre stupid and annoying as hell with your fake ass morals, people probably cant stand you. youre racist/xenophobic, you care more about animals than human life, thats obvious, and trying to make other people feel like evil incarnate for eating meat just straight up makes you a fucking ass
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
Spaceflow
Nutrition is key to good life :O)
Dismembered
because they taste good +its natural
Who tastes good? The caveman who is also a sheriff?
by Shadane; ; Report
melimustdie
dear god this post just threw me back into the rabbit hole of thatveganteacher's 2020 controversies
anyways, humans are omnivorous. plants don't taste good unless it's fruit and even fruit tastes bad, like dragon fruit. i think the meat industry should do tons better when it comes to killing animals for product, but it's only natural for humans to eat meat.
calvin
i dont want to. humans are omnivorous. leather is strong & can last centuries instead of plastic garbage that never degrades. i like meat and dairy and eggs and not being anemic, or having to take 500 vitamin supplements.
Isa
because humans are omnivores! it's on our nature to not be a vegan, plus meat contains Iron, Zinc, Sodium, Potassium, Creatine and Magnesium. Maybe even more that i don't know about. (and sorry if i listed anything wrong lmao) If we were to substitute all of these minerals that meat contains, we would be using more chemicals than we do in our day-to-day life than if we did consume meat. Obviously, we'd eat plants too, but what about those people that are picky and don't like MOST of these fruits and veggies? it is sad to see animals injected alive for volume, sometimes tortured for the sole purpose of bringing fun to those who will kill the animals for our consumption. the best idea would be to buy meat from cruelty-free butcher shops! (yes, those exist). have a blessed day.
Isa
because humans are omnivores! its on our nature to be not be a vegan, plus meat contains Iron, Zinc, Sodium, Potassium, Creatine and Magnesium. Maybe even more that i don't know about. (and sorry if i listed anything wrong lmao) If we were to substitute alll of these minerals that meat contains, we would be using more chemicals than we do in our day to day life than if we did consume meat. Obviously we'd eat plants too, but what about those people that are picky and dont like MOST of these fruits and veggies? it is sad to see animals injected alive for volume, sometimes tortured for the sole purpose of bringing fun to those who will kill the animals for our consumption. the best idea would be to buy meat from cruelty-free butcher shops! (yes, those exist). have a blessed day.
ha_anah
Hey, hope u r doing well.
I’ve seriously considered going vegetarian multiple times, because I do agree that killing animals unnecessarily is morally wrong. especially through cruel methods that inflict unnecessary pain on the animal.
For me, the reason I’m not vegetarian or vegan comes down to my religious beliefs. I believe morality ultimately comes from God. and in my faith eating animals is permitted only under strict ethical conditions meant to minimize suffering. Practices like factory farming, torture, force feeding, separating offspring for profit r actually sinful. bc of that, I don’t support the industrial meat industry and only consume meat that I believe was sourced and slaughtered in a way consistent with those ethical rules. from my perspective, if God allows something under specific conditions, then doing it responsibly isn’t immoral.
though I completely understand that this reasoning is based on my faith and won’t be convincing to everyone. I respect people who come to a different conclusion based on their own moral framework.
thank you for replying. to this i would say: would God be happy to know that His children consumed animals on such an obscene scale, that they're willing to ruin His earth for it? would it sit right with Him that His children kill animals for no other reason than sensory pleasure? a lot of theological interpretations hinge on the context in which a piece of doctrine was written. i'm not sure what faith you subscribe to, but the vegan christians i hang around with often interpret God's permission to eat animals as a necessary action when avoiding animal produce was not only impossible, but dangerous for the health of the people. we no longer have to take the lives of others to sustain ourselves, so why should we? if we have the ability to avoid the commodification of animals, which i would argue is minimizing suffering, why would God not condone it?
also, thank you for commenting in good faith and presenting a unique argument. if you're still curious about going vegan, read through this thread i made.
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
MORTISAJ
Because i go to the gym, and dont buy my own food. Even if i did, its a waste to try to find an alternative source of sufficient protein. Why wouldnt i just consume meat which we have done for generations. Ofcourse the morality of doing such can be questioned but either way the animal is already killed and veganism wont cause a large dent in the meat industry anyway.
sapyang☆
there are already alternatives to meat from slaughtered animals, milk from milked animals, leather for clothing, etc. — these alternatives are just as good. everything is already available so we don’t have to hurt animals. so what’s stopping them?
i think the reason people aren’t vegan yet is because the government hasn’t made it a law. they haven't implemented the alternatives fully in the system and completely get rid of the wrong way. i want to be vegan, and i want everyone else to be too — so we need to make veganism a rule for everyone
one thing i know about prohibition is that it doesn't work. ever. the law is on the same plane of existence as god: it's technically there, but if we all collectively decided that it isn't, it would be gone. realistically, simply banning all things animal derived would not work in practice. it is too deeply ingrained in our culture to rely on a few laws to stop people from consuming. all it will do is make the existing malpractices in animal ag ten times worse and force consumers into a black market where there is nothing preventing suppliers from doing shady shit for profit. i'm an abolitionist but i also try to be realistic. advocacy and gradual change is the only sustainable way to move forward. relying on the legal system to impose moral principles would only make the general population more hostile to said principles. read through this thread and tell me that even half the people on here would not lose their goddamn mind if you take away their chicken strips.
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
also, if vegan alternatives are more expensive, the government should fix that — they have the power to do it. and they should completely CHANGE the system
by sapyang☆; ; Report
the government can't fix society's ills. the government doesn't fix society's ills. people do. change happens from the bottom up. relying on outside forces to get people to act right has never historically worked. laws have power because we as people let them be enforced. prohibition will only work against its set goal. you can't legislate your way into a better world.
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
the government is the one on power. and we can barely do nothing about it.
"you can't legislate your way into a better world."
ok so how do u plan to spread veganism?
by sapyang☆; ; Report
through grassroots movements and advocacy towards the average person. i said this somewhere before and i'll just copy and paste it here:
cultural change starts with individual change. you cannot expect the world to get better while not doing your part. a single person might have a negligible effect on their own, in the grand scheme of things. but as more and more individuals adopt a certain way of living, those individuals will form groups, then set trends, and then become sizeable demographics. all change begins from the bottom up, so of course i care about individual decisions. where else does change begin? even disregarding my desire for a vegan world, individual decisions regarding food consumption can and do affect other individuals. the patty in your burger used to be ground beef, and that ground beef used to be a cow. steak and pork chops don't just magically appear in the grocery store for your consumption. if you're eating meat, you're eating someone. you intentionally choose to eat something that was once alive, therefore driving up demand for more living beings to be slaughtered.
i assume we're on the same page about veganism being a moral imperative, just not how it should be achieved.
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
alright, fine, let's go all in on grassroots. i know you're passionate about it, and i can see how powerful it is when people come together in their own neighborhoods to talk, share food, and change minds one by one. i really do hope this actually works, though — sometimes it feels like we're shouting into the wind when there's so much against us, like expensive alternatives and old habits. i'm crossing my fingers that this movement grows so big and so meaningful that one day, being vegan isn't just a choice for a few — it's the norm, and everyone decides to make that shift for the planet, the animals, and themselves
by sapyang☆; ; Report
panini
why r u asking such dumbass questions and then going "oh noo too many comments i cant reply to them but just know im right! :(" fcking pathetic lmaoo
because you are all repeating the same shit over and over that i already responded to multiple times
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
oh damn alr
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
Meowdty
Grilled chicken
JAJJA love meat so much not everyone was meant to be vegan
by iifairy; ; Report
TheRealDelta
Because meat tastes good lmfao
realest...
by XxkatiedatacoxX; ; Report
TheRealDelta
Because meat tastes good lmfao
TheRealDelta
Because meat tastes good lmfao
valley 🜏
i have dietary restrictions (ARFID), anemia, and disordered eating. it would do more harm than good for me to cut back on things like meat, which i already rarely eat. i try not to restrict what i eat in any way, because my options are already so far and few. im not a fan of meat, taste wise or ethically, but if i can eat it, im gonna eat it. despite all this, i agree with veganism, but i also live in the real world and know its not an option for everyone.
Amelia
meat tastes good
youre like the 50th person to fart that one out. im not even the one who posted this blog and its getting annoying
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
meat tastes good
by Amelia; ; Report
not saying it doesnt, i could fuck up a steak rn myself, just saying youre not doing anything here
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
meat tastes good
by Amelia; ; Report
so does your mom
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
meat tastes good
by Amelia; ; Report
♡ jovi 🐹
woke up at fucking 5am with diarrhea so im tired af and it will probably show in this comment sorry in advance
traditional veganism typically stems from both cultural spiritual/religious beliefs as well as geography. if you live in a place that cant grow enough grasses/grains etc to sustain a herd of cattle, you eat more plants instead. duh
western veganism is simply moral positioning at its finest
most traditional vegans like hindus dont give a rats ass if someone else eats meat. they recognize its a personal lifestyle choice and dont expect everyone else to follow suit
western vegans love to make it all about how meat eaters MUST support animal cruelty so they MUST be morally lesser
and yes i understand where that comes from— the meat INDUSTRY is uncomfortable at best and cruel at worst. but that's the meat INDUSTRY, and not everybody who eats meat buys their products from grocery stores that get get their meat from factory farms
so what if we do, anyway? they're not going away just because one family or a dozen families or even a thousand families stop buying factory farmed meat. the only way factory farms are going to change or stop altogether are if major regulations are put in place, and is that going to happen? no! because companies and governments get a lot of fucking money from exporting these products
can we talk about smaller, family owned farms, where the animals are happy and healthy up until the minute they're (quickly and painlessly, if it's done right, and it usually is) butchered? vegans looooove to focus on the factory farms and extend their distaste to small farms who dont deserve the same scrutiny
for example, do you know anything about the kosher process of raising and butchering animals for meat? there are incredibly strict rules for how an animal should be cared for, and only people specially trained for butchering can do that job, otherwise the meat isnt kosher and goes to waste
what about people like myself who raise chickens for eggs (and meat— i wont eat my girls once they die, that's my personal line that i won't cross because i've bonded with them too much, but i have no qualms with anyone who does butcher and eat their chickens. it's meat, why let it go to waste)? i saw another comment by someone who lives on a farm and raises chickens and they brought up a lot of good points
my chickens are confined to their run during winter (they wont go out in the snow anyway), but for the rest of the year they're allowed to roam and forage to their little hearts' content. in the evening they come back to the coop by themselves as they know it's their safe place, and in the morning they come back out for another day of chickening
you can taste the difference between home raised chicken eggs and store bought (especially factory farmed) eggs. my chickens eggs have beautiful orange yolks, and they taste amazing on their own, no seasoning at all. that's the difference between a chicken that's properly cared for and happy and healthy, and one that's stuck in a cage its entire life. not all animals raised for products are raised the same and it isn't fair to generalize just because you personally have a distaste for animal products (and probably arent very educated on how these animals are cared for). my chickens are incredibly loved, and they certainly feel affection for me right back
there's also the fact that chickens have been bred over the many, many generations they've been domesticated to lay eggs nearly every day depending on the breed/hybrid so... why not take advantage of that, honestly? what else are we going to do with all of the eggs? and when a chicken stops laying, sometimes they are butchered for meat. if you rely on your own farm animals to keep you fed thru the year, you use them
what about, for example, indigenous people who have historically relied on hunting and gathering for survival? is that wrong, too? the people who only take what they need, and who have been carrying on these traditions for thousands of years, are they suddenly morally reprehensible too?
what about cultures where meat is deeply ingrained into their traditional cuisine etc? and have been carrying on these traditions for thousands of years? should they change just because you think eating meat is bad?
humans were hunting loooong before we turned to agriculture. domestication of dogs came first, around 15,000 years ago, and dogs helped us hunt, they helped us guard our food. then came sheep, cows, and goats a few thousand years later, and the dogs guarded them. agriculture came not long after and from there, animal domestication really took off. chickens and horses and even silkworms and honeybees, all domesticated within the last 5,000-10,000 years
it was a natural progression. therefore the progression to factory farms, though inhumane, was also natural as humans industrialized the planet
i dont know, i think instead of focusing your ire on people who make a personal lifestyle choice that isn't that easy to break from for the majority, and also that has no impact on you personally, you should look at the real problem which is the capitalist government(s) funding factory farms while making it harder and harder for smaller family farms to keep going. join some like farming forum sites so you can see how these people actually care for their livestock from birth/hatch to butchering and stop being a block-headed western vegan. backyardchickens.com is a good stepping off point if you want to actually educate yourself on another point of view when it comes to sustainable farming, caring for livestock, animal welfare within farming/backyard communities, etc
now that i'm more awake i'll also add on that veganism isn't any healthier for the planet than factory farms are
stealing land for agriculture, using up invaluable water sources for agriculture, deforestation for agriculture, machines and carbon emissions for agriculture, displacement of native species and introduction of non-native species, some of which become invasive for agriculture (honeybees in the US), pesticides for agriculture... the list goes on. don't act like veganism could save the planet or some shit when it's doing just as much damage, if not more, than factory farms across the planet
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
this blog and most of the replies have been pissing me off big time + work is killing me but yk what imma bite and make an exception here because at least your comment was written in good faith. most of my answers have been buried by "bacon tho" dumbfucks and repeating myself over and over gets tiring.
quick things to set everything up. here is the definition of veganism, quote the vegan society:
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
this thread is the only place i talked about the ethics of veganism in detail which also addresses the tired "but indigenous people" argument. read through it first. i do not want to write it all out again. anyways, tldr for that thread:
if a person considers an animal to be,
a) a conscious, feeling individual with their own subjective life experience
b) someone worthy of moral consideration
c) deserving of a right to be free from exploitation and harm
then adopting the philosophy of veganism must naturally follow. on the other hand, it wouldn't be necessarily "wrong" for a person to not be vegan if they simply do not agree with any/ all of the prerequisites put forward. in my eyes, it would make them an ass, sure. but if you simply do not care about extending morals to animals, then not being vegan wouldn't make you a hypocrite. maybe a jackass, but at least a jackass that's morally consistent.
and the argument of "but vegans use agriculture too" is also irritating considering that a large chunk of crops grown for consumption are fed to the animals we use for food and animal agriculture is one of the largest contributors to greenhouse gas emissions. also, don't people also normally eat plants too? along with animals? why not cut out the middle man?
the words "traditional" and "vegan" don't go together considering that veganism is just a bit over 80 years old. it is a very recent philosophical position that specifically defines itself against the exploitation and commodification of animals. while it does share some moral similarities with certain doctrines of hinduism, buddhism, and jainism, it is imperative to recognize it as its own, independent set of ethics that follows a defined set of principles, and not just a general discouragement from animal maltreatment that's often present in many religious practices.
frankly, it doesn't matter to me if animal products come from humane, cruelty free, grass fed, free range, treated-with-love-and-care-and-only-one-bad-day conditions. if you do not have to subject a living being to a life where they're essentially treated as a commodity and you do it anyway, while also being opposed to general acts of animal cruelty, then it is morally inconsistent at best. the practice of extracting resources from animals, when done out of vanity (the taste) or convenience and not absolute life-or-death necessity, is simply not morally justifiable if one also believes general animal cruelty to be wrong. because if you break down the reasons for why an individual might consider animal cruelty to be wrong, it will boil down to the same two principles: animal cruelty is exploitative and unnecessary. i wonder, what other common set of practices related to animals this can apply to...
family farms are not sustainable. small scale farms are not sustainable. proper kosher/ halal slaughter, done right, is not sustainable. it is not sustainable because it is not scalable. the obscene amount of lobbying, subsidies, cut corners and lackluster legislation currently in place in pretty much all western countries regarding animal agriculture have pushed the price of animal products to the absolute lowest it could possibly go. and they are all still the most expensive things in a grocery store. "ethical" and "humane" farms cannot scale for the ridiculous demand we have for animal flesh and secretions. we do not have enough land or resources to both abolish factory farming, replace them all with welfare-first farms, and also meet everyone's craving for a pound of bacon every morning. it cannot be done. we, as a society, have to either accept that fact and cut animal ag out as much as possible (preferably entirely), or we will burn down the earth while trying.
we've bred animals into the optimal commodities, to be brought into this world for the sole purpose of being a resource. we've bred chickens to lay tenfold the eggs they naturally would, to grow to enormous sizes in weeks and get slaughtered while still being chicks. we've bred cows to produce so much milk that they have to get it out of their bodies or else they will be in immeasurable pain, while never getting a chance to rest from continuous pregnancies, a chance to raise their children who have been taken from them and will either be killed days after birth or grown into the system their mother was unlucky enough to be part of. we keep pigs in crates not much bigger than their own bodies, forcing them to live in their own filth, just to put them in literal, actual gas chambers into which they do not ever step into by their own volition. we breed these animals into existence and turn them into objects waiting to be "harvested". their very existence is considered a unit of production, unworthy of individual consideration but rather only thought of as a future slab of food. there is no way to humanely do all this. these animals should not be bred into existence at all.
cultural change starts with individual change. you cannot expect the world to get better while not doing your part. a single person might have a negligible effect on their own, in the grand scheme of things. but as more and more individuals adopt a certain way of living, those individuals will form groups, then set trends, and then become sizeable demographics. all change begins from the bottom up, so of course i care about individual decisions. where else does change begin? even disregarding my desire for a vegan world, individual decisions regarding food consumption can and do affect other individuals. the patty in your burger used to be ground beef, and that ground beef used to be a cow. steak and pork chops don't just magically appear in the grocery store for your consumption. if you're eating meat, you're eating someone. you intentionally choose to eat something that was once alive, therefore driving up demand for more living beings to be slaughtered.
and as a closing statement, i have just one question: why? why jump through so many hoops, do so many things and invest so many resources into creating animal-derived resources when we just don't have to? why bring sentient, conscious life into this world, only to subject it to a life of exploitation, when the end product could have its core attributes mimicked and done better by something that could be grown with much less sustenance required? what is it about animal products that is so desperately sought after in the majority of the population? taste? convenience? how do you humanely kill an animal that does not want, or need, to die? is doing all this so much more worth it than just not eating animal flesh and going for some beans instead? i have been vegan for a long time now, and i cannot think at the top of my head of any animal product that is worth all this needless struggle. seriously, no cheese or steak is that good. and i've had them all, man. i've had them all.
typing out all this while bottle feeding a rescue piglet. little fatass will scream bloody murder if she's not fed for even an hour. you know what? it's worth it. at least my little buddy isn't heading for the knife in the future.
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
all i see is what boils down to moral arguments
jusy lolz and roflmao @ the last part. typing this while eating chicken soup, after spending a substantial amount of time out in the freezing cold with my chickens to make sure theyre comfortable and eating and drinking water before they go into their heated coop for the night, chatting with them while they groom my hair because they love me because i take excellent care of them and they choose to be around me even though they have everything they need out there in their run, and the only reason they'll ever "see the knife" is if they're suffering or need to be quickly and humanely culled for any other reason because i'm a responsible and compassionate chicken owner
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report
"what boils down to moral arguments"
...we are talking about veganism. was that not obvious?
by BIOHAPHAZARD; ; Report
exactly why veganism is a joke
by ♡ jovi 🐹; ; Report