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Please ignore the weird background, I wrote this in MS Word and it copied weird. Many of these arguments are taken directly from a debate piece I wrote for school.
Obviously, this is a very opinionated post, so if you're not into that, then just close this. Just saw someone on my bulletin spouting some dumb shit so I figured I'd make this.
I am not arguing FOR capitalism here; it is a pretty flawed system. I am simply arguing AGAINST communism.
A big part of the discourse regarding communism involves the definition of success in a country. Personally, I think personal freedoms, economic freedoms, and country-wide economic growth are significant parts of what makes a country successful. Some examples could include Germany, Japan, and the US. If you think, for whatever reason, a country where freedoms are limited and people are treated differently from what the ENTIRE WEST has decided they deserve to be, then this post is not for you.
What the country does with its money is a separate topic. Japan and Germany tend to put more money into social programs, while the US invests it in the military and into the pockets of our politicians. This may be a fault of capitalism, but communism is NOT better in this regard. Corruption can occur under any political or economic system and is influenced by various factors, including governance structures, the level of institutional development, transparency, and cultural aspects. However, historical implementations of communism in countries like the Soviet Union, China, and others have shown a tendency for corruption to manifest in unique ways due to the centralized nature of political and economic control. Just look at North Korea.
Communism has often faced significant economic challenges that have impacted its success. The primary reasons for these challenges stem from the intrinsic features of how communist economies are structured and managed. You cannot put the blame on other countries; that is a cop-out and implies that every economy in the world is reliant on anti-communist countries. The Soviet Union, for example, was one of the largest superpowers in history. Despite the great wealth within its economy, and the immense trade it had with other powers like China, citizens still had to wait in lines for food. Supermarkets were almost empty, and it was clear there was a class divide... in a system that was supposed to remove that. See the issue?
If you are a communist who believes it's a good system, or believes it was "never done right," here is a list of countries that have attempted communism; are you telling me every single one just "implemented it wrong"?
Soviet Union (USSR) - Established in 1922 and lasted until its dissolution in 1991. It was the first state to be based on Marxist socialism.
People's Republic of China (PRC) - Established in 1949 under the leadership of Mao Zedong and continues to be governed by the Communist Party, albeit with significant economic reforms.
Cuba - Since the Cuban Revolution in 1959, led by Fidel Castro, Cuba has been under communist rule.
Vietnam - Unified under communist control in 1975 after the Vietnam War, with the government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam established.
North Korea - Established in 1948 following the division of Korea, officially known as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
East Germany (GDR) - Established in 1949 and was a communist state until its reunification with West Germany in 1990.
Cambodia (Kampuchea) - Under the Khmer Rouge led by Pol Pot from 1975 to 1979, Cambodia experienced a brutal form of communism.
Laos - The Lao People's Democratic Republic was established in 1975 and continues to be governed by the Lao People's Revolutionary Party.
Yugoslavia - Under Josip Broz Tito, Yugoslavia pursued a form of socialism with some unique elements such as worker self-management from 1945 until its dissolution in the early 1990s.
Romania - Communist rule from 1947 until the revolution in 1989.
Bulgaria - Under communist rule from 1946 to 1990.
Poland - Communist government established after World War II, lasting until the democratic transition in 1989.
Hungary - A communist government was established post-World War II and lasted until 1989.
Czechoslovakia - A communist regime was in place from 1948 until the Velvet Revolution in 1989.
Albania - Enver Hoxha established a Stalinist regime that lasted from the end of World War II until 1991.
Mongolia - People's Republic of Mongolia was a communist state from 1924 until the early 1990s.
Ethiopia - Under Mengistu Haile Mariam, Ethiopia was a Marxist-Leninist state from 1974 until 1991.
Angola - After gaining independence in 1975, Angola was governed by the Marxist-Leninist MPLA.
Mozambique - Became a People's Republic in 1975, with the FRELIMO party adopting Marxism-Leninism.
Notice how most of these countries are complete disasters or have since switched to a different system?
The only country on this list that is even somewhat successful is China. However, even hardcore communists admit it has strayed from true communism. Not only that, but the insane restrictions on personal liberties are enough for me to consider it a sham government. (Just look up the great firewall lol)
I used to be a communist a few years ago. However, I got most of my information through TikTok and Twitter, which obviously wasn't a true source of information. Ironically, in trying to learn more about communism and win more arguments on TikTok, I ended up learning about how bad the system really is. There is a reason many ex-Soviet countries have a deep hatred for the system.
I'm not making this to change the minds of people. If you really think communism is a great, flawless system, then you are obviously not going to be reasonable enough to look at unbiased sources for anything.
Despite that, here are my main sources:
"The Cold War: A New History" by John Lewis Gaddis
"The Rise and Fall of Communism" by Archie Brown
"List of Communist States" by Wikipedia [List of communist states - Wikipedia] See 'Disputed' section for more info about North Korea
"Yesterday's Tomorrows: On Utopia and Dystopia" by Gallardo Russel
"The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
"Communism" by Wikipedia [Communism - Wikipedia]
For Modern, unbiased news:
See News Blindspots | Ground News | Media Bias Check
(Ground News is a paid-for service, keep that in mind)
Let me know if you want this on a blog.
I will not be acknowledging comments unless they are civil and attempt to actually have a discussion on this matter. Also please do not ask what system I think would actually work without flaws, there isn't one.
Comments
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Pepper
TOTSUGEKIIIII 🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬🐬
༺⛧𝔏𝔬𝔫𝔤 𝔏𝔦𝔳𝔢 𝔊𝔢𝔫𝔢𝔰𝔦𝔰⛧༻
Hello, I would humbly disagree with this as, to be clear and transparent about my biases, I am an anarcho-communist. Though I am not the best person to be defending communism as I have not read too much theory but I would like to point stuff out.
Before I begin, any self-respecting communist who says: "There has never been a communist state" "Communism leads to utopia" among other ''communist'' talking points are simply invalid and second-rate at best.
Firstly, saying that the ''ENTIRE WEST'' allows personal freedoms (among other freedoms) is simply not true. For example, and one you named: USA. A country which projects imperealism through many countries (mainly in the Middle East, Levant, Persia, and Africa) and not to mention their own citizens like Peurto-Ricans and Guamanians who can't even vote on elections (basically being second-class citizens) and that's not to mention the disenfrancisment of mainly black, hispanic, and native peoples, etc. As well as other 'western' countries like Australia.
In regards to the Soviet Union, there was destabilisation from many countries that have covertly targeted them (namely the CIA). I'm not going to disagree with the starvation and corruption, those were present; however, those were arguably worse under the Romanov Reigme as the Tsardom was basically a feudal society and a monarchy (which intrensically is corrupt) as well as starvation being rife. And also the fact alot of places were prone to famine/drought, though some were preventable. And as an anarchist, I do believe a main reason due to their corruption and authoritarianism is due to the existence of hierarchy. So in my opinion, it was bad, but agruably worse under the Tsardom.
And many of the countries you've listed like most of the Eastern Bloc were puppet governments so I'd hardly include them but that isn't really a major issue with this piece.
And yes, China has indeed strayed from communism but that is really the only way to survive in a staunchly capitalist and neoliberal world. Like communism (at least in the modern era) is hardly effective as powers like the CIA will try to destablise it by funding coups and embargos and such. And as well as communism can't exist in a capitalist world, vice versa is also true. That capitalism (a system of infinite growth on a finite world) would not survive in a communist world as the exploitation of foreign countries would likely be hard to do.
Also, "Notice how most of these countries are complete disasters or have since switched to a different system?"
Seriously? I'm sorry but genuinely what. You named countries such as Vietnam, China, Angola, Mozambique and wonder why they are ''complete disasters''? COLONIALISM (and neo-colonialism). And also that these countries among others were couped out of existence due to the corruption rife in the global south as a result of colonial powers funding groups who have their intrests at heart and to overthrow governments who don't agree with them. Also, you have forgotten Burkina Faso (wonder why) as under Thomas Sankara the country was a communist success by many metrics.
I'm very sorry for the rudeness but seriously; that was a quite a dismissal of the other factors of their disaster-ness.
If you do have any questions, feel free to ask and i'll try to respond if i can. But again, I am quite new to being both a communist and anarchist so I may not be the best but I will try.
I would love to see a source for half the information you listed here.
As for Burkina Faso, it's literally one of the least devolved countries in the world as of now. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkina_Faso, third paragraph)
Just because it saw mild success under a single president years ago, doesn't mean it's a communist W. That's like saying Reagan was an amazing president because the economy did good when he was in office.
It's also worth noting that Burkina Faso was NEVER AN OFFICIAL COMMUNIST STATE! While it underwent many socialist reforms, it never fell under true communism as defined by Marxist and Leninist principles.
(See original post for sources on this)
Once again, almost like clockwork, Burkina Faso fell into the authoritarian patterns you see in every communism nation. There was repression of political opponents and restrictions on the press and trade unions. (https://roape.net/2021/09/23/sankaras-elusive-socialism/)
Half the "checkmates" in this rebuttal are arguments I've seen on TikTok that can be disproven or countered by a few minutes of proper research.
This just seems like the classic communist rebuttal to any historical examples of failed communist governments. Guys it was the CIA!! guys!!!
You literally admit that you are unfamiliar with the theories that you represent.
If you're going to act like my points are insane, at least have the knowledge of your own system to par.
by ❥ antwke; ; Report
*least developed i meant teehee :3
by ❥ antwke; ; Report
Firstly, Burkina Faso is not 'under developed', it's over exploited. There is a massive difference that you and other like you don't recognise. And yes there was some supression but like, yeah, duh. It was a post-revolitionary state. My own country of Ireland after our revolution had supression of freedoms like speech for a time (which didn't last too long as it was capitalist and other reasons at the time but that is beside the point).
And no, Sankara did more than Reagan ever wish he could have acheived, like the country's literacy rate (because you seem to think i'm a tiktok tankie, here's a source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sankara%23:~:text%3DUnder%2520Sankara%27s%2520presidency%2520the%2520literacy,1983%2520to%252073%2525%2520in%25201987.&ved=2ahUKEwjsoo_snYmGAxXIS_EDHf0UCb0QFnoECBAQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3fRBvp5AfFBYScvGKAqCKF) and also Sankara's radical feminist actions, like installing women in government roles. He did way more for the country, that was in the grips of neo colonialism, than Reagan did for a global superpower. And a country within an area of the world of rampent voilence and coups follows similar patterns after a take-over of the government? Crazy.
And you're framing of what I was doing as being a "checkmate", are you fucking joking me? Questioning you and providing criticisms is a fucking checkmate? Grow the fuck up. That alone tells me what I need to know about how you think a debate or a civil conversation goes is that there is a winner. So disingenuous.
And forgive me for mentioning the CIA's involvement. I guess if it just happens a lot then it's just a "classic communist rebuttal", and I'm not claiming the CIA is somehow responsible for every failed communist state entirely or at all, rather they either constributed in most cases. Again, I am an anarchist, so I believe heirarchy is shit and is why corrupt and then decline of a state is common.
And I had stated I had not read too much theory, not that I only get my fucking talking points from a tiktok video or Hakim or some shit. Like i'm a thinking human being. I just haven't read every single book, essay, or whatever about communism, not that I haven't read ANYTHING on the subject. And on a second note, forgive me that I don't have the works of Engels, Marx, Lenin, and whomsever on stand by to hurl at people when you have an entire debate piece from school that probably involved you researching over some spand of time where as I quickly scraped together my unmedicated thoughts so I could lessen some of the flawed arguementation present in your piece.
by ༺⛧𝔏𝔬𝔫𝔤 𝔏𝔦𝔳𝔢 𝔊𝔢𝔫𝔢𝔰𝔦𝔰⛧༻; ; Report
I eat nails
by Cheerio; ; Report
Overexploited? How exactly? If you want to blame colonialism that is truly a different story as they exploit whatever country they want, regardless of the system they use.
I also never equated their president to Reagan, I used him has an example as to why it isn't smart to judge a nation's success based on a single, former president. It's clear his policies didn't withstand the test of time. You also ignore how it really wasn't a true communist state to begin with.
The literacy rate is indeed something good that was accomplished, but was it a result of the socialist reforms? I'm not so sure. See Botswana for example.
I never accused you of "not reading every little essay or paragraph on the matter" , but you clearly did not read The Communist Manifesto as you would have known Burkina Faso was not a true communist society had you done so.
Sorry if my original reply came off as a bit heated.
by ❥ antwke; ; Report
I'm sorry as well that my comment came off as heated but the whole you asking civil conversation and then giving a reply rife with sass kinda gave me an "oh ok, btch" mindset in my reply.
While yes I agree Burkina Faso was not a communist country it most definitely had communist/socialist aspects to it. The new established government (if given time) would have blossomed into a communist state. Granted debating what could have been isn't reality-grounded arguement but Sankara's socialist work was amazing in comparision to what Burkina was, and became. Ofc not a ''Communist W'' (which is a flawed discription but besides the point) but rather if it had the chance, which realistically it didn't due to looming presence of colonial powers whom are merely a manifestation of capitalism. And mainly his policies didn't test the sands of time was due to the amount of coups and such that break the country and reinvent it again and again. This would obviously not let any relitively good, in terms of benefits for the population, policies be passed because of the rife political destabilisation. And I would suggest the literacy rate is socialist, as to nearly all socialist/communists/etc: quality of life for the proleteriat is increadably important, which includes literacy rates.
And I will be transparent here, I have not gotten around to reading the full Communist Manifesto as, from guidence from most communist, that book as well as Das Capital and other works are very advanced or that beginners to communism should avoid it for the time being and read other books like, one I have read: Principles of Communism by Friedrich Engels. Now, that is not to say I am a beginner, just that at moment I haven't dived into the theory in some time as I've been other books for leisure to let my brain rest from the crushing weight of capitalism
by ༺⛧𝔏𝔬𝔫𝔤 𝔏𝔦𝔳𝔢 𝔊𝔢𝔫𝔢𝔰𝔦𝔰⛧༻; ; Report
I'm sorry as well that my comment came off as heated but the whole you asking civil conversation and then giving a reply rife with sass kinda gave me an "oh ok, btch" mindset in my reply.
While yes I agree Burkina Faso was not a communist country it most definitely had communist/socialist aspects to it. The new established government (if given time) would have blossomed into a communist state. Granted debating what could have been isn't reality-grounded arguement but Sankara's socialist work was amazing in comparision to what Burkina was, and became. Ofc not a ''Communist W'' (which is a flawed discription but besides the point) but rather if it had the chance, which realistically it didn't due to looming presence of colonial powers whom are merely a manifestation of capitalism. And mainly his policies didn't test the sands of time was due to the amount of coups and such that break the country and reinvent it again and again. This would obviously not let any relitively good, in terms of benefits for the population, policies be passed because of the rife political destabilisation. And I would suggest the literacy rate is socialist, as to nearly all socialist/communists/etc: quality of life for the proleteriat is increadably important, which includes literacy rates.
And I will be transparent here, I have not gotten around to reading the full Communist Manifesto as, from guidence from most communist, that book as well as Das Capital and other works are very advanced or that beginners to communism should avoid it for the time being and read other books like, one I have read: Principles of Communism by Friedrich Engels. Now, that is not to say I am a beginner, just that at moment I haven't dived into the theory in some time as I've been other books for leisure to let my brain rest from the crushing weight of capitalism
by ༺⛧𝔏𝔬𝔫𝔤 𝔏𝔦𝔳𝔢 𝔊𝔢𝔫𝔢𝔰𝔦𝔰⛧༻; ; Report
cl0wn
As far as ideals go you could certainly do worse than what communism supposedly offers, at least on paper. I would imagine this is why many people identify with it, perhaps even moreso if they are not familiar with the details of history surrounding it.
Still, history has pretty definitively shown communism to be a system incompatible with the welfare of humanity, methinks.